Sept. 5, 2025
Barcelona Principles 2025: What PR Pros Need to Measure Now (Episode 310)
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Barcelona Principles 2025: What PR Pros Need to Measure Now (Episode 310)Episode Summary
In episode 310 of That Solo Life, hosts Karen Swim, APR, and Michelle Kane break down the latest update to the Barcelona Principles and what it means for independent PR and communications pros. They cover the shift toward outcomes that matter to the C-suite, the stronger alignment with AMEC’s Integrated Evaluation Framework, the role of qualitative and quantitative data, and why leveling up in measurement and AI will separate thriving practitioners from the rest. You’ll walk away with practical next steps, resources, and a nudge to price your expertise for the true value you deliver.
Keywords: Barcelona Principles 2025, AMEC framework, PR measurement, qualitative and quantitative metrics, AI in PR, PR outcomes, stakeholder sentiment, media relations, solo PR pricing, communications strategy.
Episode Highlights- 00:00 – 00:24 | Welcome back to That Solo Life
- 01:39 – 02:41 | What’s new in the Barcelona Principles (2025 update + AMEC alignment)
- 02:49 – 03:05 | AVEs aren’t it: Why outcomes beat output every time
- 03:28 – 04:24 | The business case: Tie PR to revenue, cost reduction, and executive priorities
- 05:01 – 05:23 | Quant + qual: Why both matter for effective evaluation
- 05:36 – 06:11 | From “audience” to “stakeholders”: Measuring sentiment and behavior change
- 06:12 – 07:11 | Stop fearing data: You already synthesize information—now measure it
- 07:01 – 07:11 | Two skills that will set pros apart: Measurement and AI
- 08:01 – 09:24 | Using AMEC’s resources to build a measurement-first practice
- 11:02 – 12:26 | Measure your time and value: Why low-fee retainers undermine real PR work
- 12:37 – 13:01 | Plan → act → measure: Strategy comes first
- 13:16 – 14:07 | Career fuel: Leveling up skills can reignite your passion for the work
- 14:09 – 14:30 | Parting encouragement and next steps
Highlights and takeaways:
- The Barcelona Principles update emphasizes business outcomes, not vanity metrics.
- Tie PR to revenue, cost of sales, risk mitigation, and reputation impact.
- Blend quantitative data (traffic, conversions, assisted revenue) with qualitative insights (sentiment, message pull-through).
- Use AMEC’s Integrated Evaluation Framework to plan from objectives to outcomes.
- Price for the strategic and labor-intensive nature of PR—measurement begins at planning.
- Invest in AI and analytics skills to future-proof your practice.
Resources mentioned:
- PR News: Barcelona Principles 4.0: Reinventing PR Measurement for a New Era
- AMEC: Barcelona Principles
- AMEC: AMEC Integrated Evaluation Framework (plan, measure, and evaluate end-to-end)
- Solo PR Pro (training, community, and tools for independent practitioners)
Related episodes to queue next:
Note: Links are provided for educational purposes. Always adapt frameworks to your client’s specific goals, audiences, and market conditions.
Host & Show InfoThat Solo Life is a podcast created for public relations, communication, and marketing professionals who work as independent and small practitioners. Hosted by Karen Swim, APR, founder of Words For Hire and President of Solo PR, and Michelle Kane, Principal of Voice Matters, the show delivers expert insights, encouragement, and advice for solo PR pros navigating today’s dynamic professional landscape.
Join us again!
- If this episode helped you, subscribe, rate, and leave a review—it helps more solo pros find the show.
- Share this episode with a colleague who’s rethinking their measurement approach.
- Visit Solo PR Pro to keep leveling up your practice.
Barcelona Principles 2025: What PR Pros Need to Measure Now (Episode 310)
Transcribing live conversations can be tricky so please be forgiving of any typos or errors that you find. Love something here and want to share? Great, please read the notes at the end. Enjoy!
Michelle Kane (00:12):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of That Solo Life, the podcast for Solo PR pros and marketers who work for THEMSELVES, people like me, Michelle Kane, with Voice Matters, and my wonderful co-host, Karen Swim of Solo PR Pro. Hi, Karen. Here we are again. It's another beautiful day for talking pr.
Karen Swim, APR (00:30):
Hi, Michelle. It is a beautiful day to talk PR. I'm so excited. How are you doing?
Michelle Kane (00:36):
I'm doing well, doing well. We're still in the thick of August and I don't know, I saw my first, I was in the grocery store this weekend and saw my first signs of fall and I'm like, come on now. Stop it.
Karen Swim, APR (00:51):
They're probably rushing it this year because it's so stinking hot. We're all looking forward to cooler temperatures of the fall season. This is true. I'm going to give them a pass this year and say, good on you.
Michelle Kane (01:08):
But I'm not buying my welcome fall reusable grocery bag. But I'll give it a nod. Yes.
Karen Swim, APR (01:14):
I mean, it's right around the corner when you think about it because August is clipping along and I know that it's not just us because the consensus seems to be that the days are just moving by so quickly.
Michelle Kane (01:27):
They are really are. It feels like the month just started and here we are, so Well, speaking of things that are moving along, we have an update on the Barcelona principles. Apparently, I believe this is the first update since 2020, if I'm correct.
Karen Swim, APR (01:45):
Yeah, I think they try to make some updates every, is it every five years?
Michelle Kane (01:50):
Yeah, so Well, that tracks,
Karen Swim, APR (01:53):
That makes sense. What's really sad about the Barcelona principles is once again, I feel like this is much more prevalent and much more talked about and utilized in Europe than it is in the United States, but it actually is an approach that aligns with everything that we do and are accountable for NPR. So I hope that our audience at least will lean hard into these principles, and one of the most exciting changes this year is that they've aligned it more with AMAC and the measurement framework. So I think those are great
Michelle Kane (02:35):
Changes, and I wonder too, if part of it is just people get hung up on the a VE of it all and are distaste for that and really that it's not very useful, and then they kind of just don't give the whole thing any credence, which is kind of silly because reading through what's new, along with what you said, it seems to just align with the way we do things anyway or should be doing things. So it all makes sense.
Karen Swim, APR (03:02):
I do feel like many solos and many PR pros, not just solos, but many PR pros are doing many of these things. But I will say that I still believe that in 2025, we all could stand to get better at measurement. And I know that might be a controversial statement, and I apply that to myself too. I feel like definitely I'm constantly learning, looking at what I do, learning how to do it better. We talked about this I think as one of the trends for 2025 that we really needed to dig deep. And now I don't think it's just a matter of gaining your seat at the executive table. I think it's a matter of who works and who does not, because with the economy the way it is, the uncertainty, we're seeing companies do layoffs, we're seeing companies cutting budgets. The only way as a PR practitioner that you can hold onto your business is being able to show results that matter to the executive suite. And we often don't speak in their language, and in the past, we made excuses about why we didn't speak in their language, but what do they care about? Cost reductions. They care about bringing in revenue. We have to tie what we do to those outcomes. And so we have to really learn measurement, the framework for measurement, and then be able to measure what matters to that individual client or to your company if you are an in-house
Michelle Kane (04:49):
Person. Yeah, in fact, principle number four, effective measurement and evaluation of communication require qualitative and quantitative. So really they're broadening the scope in a way of what's being measured. Of course, taking AI into account and really because okay, not only do we want to know what happened, but we want to be able to communicate why.
Karen Swim, APR (05:18):
Yes. Yeah. This is more than clickthroughs to a website. This is looking at, and I love that they change the language, although I hate the word stakeholder, but they changed it to stakeholder because they have this academic and this practitioner. So stakeholder audience really made more sense. But
(05:41):
How often we say that we want to improve reputation, but how often do we measure the sentiment of our audience as a result of the efforts that we take? So it's looking at not only what your audience did, how they felt about it, why they did it. It's looking at how you move the needle, what truly happened, how did this impact cost of sales, your efforts? And I think that we have to stop being afraid of being data driven. I know that a lot of PR pros are like, Ugh, hate math, hate numbers, and not hate. We're smart. We are smart, we know this stuff. But traditionally we've leaned away from that and said, Ugh, people just don't get it. But I think, again, that we have to get better. I would highly recommend going to amec their website because they have a PR pro guide that you can go through chapter by chapter. You can go through it online, you can download the entire guide, look at their framework. They even have a online framework where you can put in all of your information, submit it, learn this stuff. I mean, really dig deep and learn this stuff because the two skills that I believe will set PR pros apart from those who work and those who struggle are measurement and ai.
Michelle Kane (07:17):
Yes, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. And think about it, we're storytellers at heart and well, what do you need to tell the story? You need information. So I think we need to stop being afraid of crunching numbers and collecting data because those are the ingredients in our recipe. I dunno, what else could I say about that? But it's true, and we should welcome it, even though we might think it's not our forte. That's okay. That's all right. Because truly, if we were mathematicians, then that's what we'd be doing. Totally get that. But just because we're wordsmiths doesn't mean we can't also interpret information, which is honestly, when you're writing and you're synthesizing information, you're actually already doing it, guys. So don't be scared. It's all good.
Karen Swim, APR (08:09):
Yeah, we are already, and again, we are already doing it now. It's leveling up our game by really digging deeper and applying the right framework to what maybe we've been doing. And we didn't even realize we were doing it because I believe that this is the life of the solo PR pro. A lot of times we've been ahead of the curve and we're doing stuff and we just don't even have a name for it anymore because it's so a part of how we practice. And then other people come along and you go, oh, wait, yeah, I'm already doing that thing. So I believe that we're doing it, but I do think that there is not a PR pro that exists that couldn't get better because
Michelle Kane (08:55):
That
Karen Swim, APR (08:55):
Would say that you're perfect and none of us are. So that may sound like a controversial statement, but it's actually, we can always learn something. We can always tweak something, we can always improve. And I geek out on this stuff because I do love data, but I really started to go through the guides and the framework too, because being able to speak to my clients and let them know why what we do matters is critical to me. And I know that I will not survive if I'm not able to show that in hard and fast numbers. And I believe that's true for all of us, particularly in the times that we live in.
Michelle Kane (09:40):
And think of it this way. I mean, how often have we been in this position of, and sometimes it's certainly valid of, well, the client may say, well, why did this happen? What should we do instead? And sometimes it is a crapshoot, but sometimes, wouldn't it be nice to have the language to speak to them and know just what to say? I think that's incredibly valuable. We owe it to ourselves to dig in a little more. And I am totally with you with the buzzwords. I can't tell you how many times I've gone to either a conference or a session and Oh, well, the buzzy buzz buzzword, and I'm like, oh, is that what that thing I've been doing for a few years is called, oh, should I be calling it that? And you feel dumb for a second. Like, oh. Oh, okay. I remember when integrated marketing came out, I thought, oh, you mean what I've been doing since 1990? Yes, it's got a name now. Oh, okay. Ten four, good buddy.
Karen Swim, APR (10:41):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And so again, I do, but I know also that in this year, I've still heard people complain about clients who want avs. And so that tells me that we still have a lot of work to do in a lot of education.
Michelle Kane (11:04):
I
Karen Swim, APR (11:04):
Also want to point out something that I think is equally as important around this topic, measuring your time and your value. Because let's face it, PR is definitely a heavy lift. There's a lot of time that goes into what we do and to do it really well, we're not flying by the seat of our pants. The strategic planning alone can and should take time because measurement starts there. It starts with how do you want this whole thing to end? Well, you have to plan for that. So you have to plan, you have to act, you have to do, you have measure. And it takes time. So the people that are here trying to hire public relations people for less than $2,000 a month, you have to ask yourself, what are you really getting? Because PR is labor-intensive. Think about just one tactic of media relations. Takes a lot of time. That's only one tactic, and it's probably not the only thing that's in your plan.
(12:16):
So I want us, our family, our PR pros to bring their best gain land, the best clients, the ones that truly understand the value, and be able to show them why you are who you are and why you deserve to be paid what you're going to charge. And that's not the bottom of the barrel because you're offering a valuable service and you can actually drive the business. So you can align up with organizational goals. But again, it takes thoughtful planning. It takes being purposeful. It takes really understanding not only how to communicate the client's story, but how to communicate our story to the client.
Michelle Kane (13:01):
And if this feels like a heavy lift to you, it's okay. But you know what? Just take the first few steps because it'll be so worth it on the other side of it all. And we know that we've been in business for ourselves. We get it. We get it. So we have every confidence in all of you. Yeah, we do. You're like, oh,
Karen Swim, APR (13:24):
I think learning this stuff and getting better at it can refresh your career. It can make you excited all over again. And I mean, also, there's going to be days I have them where I'm like, oh my God, I cannot wait until retirement. I just want out. I don't want to learn anything else. I don't want to do anything else. This is just all too much. So I'm being transparent because Michelle and I get it. We're not just here on the podcast spouting off stuff without understanding the full scope of emotions that you feel and the reality of doing what we do. We do not have an easy job. We really and truly do not. But I think it's time for us to really amp up letting other people know why this job is so critically important, and that means bolstering the skills that will allow us to do that.
Michelle Kane (14:19):
Yep. A hundred percent. 100%. Well, we hope you've been inspired to dig in. We will have all kinds of good links in the show notes, so please do share this around. And you know what? It is coming to the end of summer, so that whole back-to-school vibe is out there. So latch onto that and let's do it. Okay. And thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on “That Solo Life.”
You are more than welcome to share the transcript (up to 500 words) in media articles (e.g., PR News, O’Dwyers), on your personal website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Substack), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “That Solo Life” and link back to the soloprpro/podcast URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.
But please note that no one is authorized to copy any portion of the podcast content or use That Solo Life’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, X, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.
Got questions? Email us at info@soloprpro.com.
Transcribing live conversations can be tricky so please be forgiving of any typos or errors that you find. Love something here and want to share? Great, please read the notes at the end. Enjoy!
Michelle Kane (00:12):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of That Solo Life, the podcast for Solo PR pros and marketers who work for THEMSELVES, people like me, Michelle Kane, with Voice Matters, and my wonderful co-host, Karen Swim of Solo PR Pro. Hi, Karen. Here we are again. It's another beautiful day for talking pr.
Karen Swim, APR (00:30):
Hi, Michelle. It is a beautiful day to talk PR. I'm so excited. How are you doing?
Michelle Kane (00:36):
I'm doing well, doing well. We're still in the thick of August and I don't know, I saw my first, I was in the grocery store this weekend and saw my first signs of fall and I'm like, come on now. Stop it.
Karen Swim, APR (00:51):
They're probably rushing it this year because it's so stinking hot. We're all looking forward to cooler temperatures of the fall season. This is true. I'm going to give them a pass this year and say, good on you.
Michelle Kane (01:08):
But I'm not buying my welcome fall reusable grocery bag. But I'll give it a nod. Yes.
Karen Swim, APR (01:14):
I mean, it's right around the corner when you think about it because August is clipping along and I know that it's not just us because the consensus seems to be that the days are just moving by so quickly.
Michelle Kane (01:27):
They are really are. It feels like the month just started and here we are, so Well, speaking of things that are moving along, we have an update on the Barcelona principles. Apparently, I believe this is the first update since 2020, if I'm correct.
Karen Swim, APR (01:45):
Yeah, I think they try to make some updates every, is it every five years?
Michelle Kane (01:50):
Yeah, so Well, that tracks,
Karen Swim, APR (01:53):
That makes sense. What's really sad about the Barcelona principles is once again, I feel like this is much more prevalent and much more talked about and utilized in Europe than it is in the United States, but it actually is an approach that aligns with everything that we do and are accountable for NPR. So I hope that our audience at least will lean hard into these principles, and one of the most exciting changes this year is that they've aligned it more with AMAC and the measurement framework. So I think those are great
Michelle Kane (02:35):
Changes, and I wonder too, if part of it is just people get hung up on the a VE of it all and are distaste for that and really that it's not very useful, and then they kind of just don't give the whole thing any credence, which is kind of silly because reading through what's new, along with what you said, it seems to just align with the way we do things anyway or should be doing things. So it all makes sense.
Karen Swim, APR (03:02):
I do feel like many solos and many PR pros, not just solos, but many PR pros are doing many of these things. But I will say that I still believe that in 2025, we all could stand to get better at measurement. And I know that might be a controversial statement, and I apply that to myself too. I feel like definitely I'm constantly learning, looking at what I do, learning how to do it better. We talked about this I think as one of the trends for 2025 that we really needed to dig deep. And now I don't think it's just a matter of gaining your seat at the executive table. I think it's a matter of who works and who does not, because with the economy the way it is, the uncertainty, we're seeing companies do layoffs, we're seeing companies cutting budgets. The only way as a PR practitioner that you can hold onto your business is being able to show results that matter to the executive suite. And we often don't speak in their language, and in the past, we made excuses about why we didn't speak in their language, but what do they care about? Cost reductions. They care about bringing in revenue. We have to tie what we do to those outcomes. And so we have to really learn measurement, the framework for measurement, and then be able to measure what matters to that individual client or to your company if you are an in-house
Michelle Kane (04:49):
Person. Yeah, in fact, principle number four, effective measurement and evaluation of communication require qualitative and quantitative. So really they're broadening the scope in a way of what's being measured. Of course, taking AI into account and really because okay, not only do we want to know what happened, but we want to be able to communicate why.
Karen Swim, APR (05:18):
Yes. Yeah. This is more than clickthroughs to a website. This is looking at, and I love that they change the language, although I hate the word stakeholder, but they changed it to stakeholder because they have this academic and this practitioner. So stakeholder audience really made more sense. But
(05:41):
How often we say that we want to improve reputation, but how often do we measure the sentiment of our audience as a result of the efforts that we take? So it's looking at not only what your audience did, how they felt about it, why they did it. It's looking at how you move the needle, what truly happened, how did this impact cost of sales, your efforts? And I think that we have to stop being afraid of being data driven. I know that a lot of PR pros are like, Ugh, hate math, hate numbers, and not hate. We're smart. We are smart, we know this stuff. But traditionally we've leaned away from that and said, Ugh, people just don't get it. But I think, again, that we have to get better. I would highly recommend going to amec their website because they have a PR pro guide that you can go through chapter by chapter. You can go through it online, you can download the entire guide, look at their framework. They even have a online framework where you can put in all of your information, submit it, learn this stuff. I mean, really dig deep and learn this stuff because the two skills that I believe will set PR pros apart from those who work and those who struggle are measurement and ai.
Michelle Kane (07:17):
Yes, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. And think about it, we're storytellers at heart and well, what do you need to tell the story? You need information. So I think we need to stop being afraid of crunching numbers and collecting data because those are the ingredients in our recipe. I dunno, what else could I say about that? But it's true, and we should welcome it, even though we might think it's not our forte. That's okay. That's all right. Because truly, if we were mathematicians, then that's what we'd be doing. Totally get that. But just because we're wordsmiths doesn't mean we can't also interpret information, which is honestly, when you're writing and you're synthesizing information, you're actually already doing it, guys. So don't be scared. It's all good.
Karen Swim, APR (08:09):
Yeah, we are already, and again, we are already doing it now. It's leveling up our game by really digging deeper and applying the right framework to what maybe we've been doing. And we didn't even realize we were doing it because I believe that this is the life of the solo PR pro. A lot of times we've been ahead of the curve and we're doing stuff and we just don't even have a name for it anymore because it's so a part of how we practice. And then other people come along and you go, oh, wait, yeah, I'm already doing that thing. So I believe that we're doing it, but I do think that there is not a PR pro that exists that couldn't get better because
Michelle Kane (08:55):
That
Karen Swim, APR (08:55):
Would say that you're perfect and none of us are. So that may sound like a controversial statement, but it's actually, we can always learn something. We can always tweak something, we can always improve. And I geek out on this stuff because I do love data, but I really started to go through the guides and the framework too, because being able to speak to my clients and let them know why what we do matters is critical to me. And I know that I will not survive if I'm not able to show that in hard and fast numbers. And I believe that's true for all of us, particularly in the times that we live in.
Michelle Kane (09:40):
And think of it this way. I mean, how often have we been in this position of, and sometimes it's certainly valid of, well, the client may say, well, why did this happen? What should we do instead? And sometimes it is a crapshoot, but sometimes, wouldn't it be nice to have the language to speak to them and know just what to say? I think that's incredibly valuable. We owe it to ourselves to dig in a little more. And I am totally with you with the buzzwords. I can't tell you how many times I've gone to either a conference or a session and Oh, well, the buzzy buzz buzzword, and I'm like, oh, is that what that thing I've been doing for a few years is called, oh, should I be calling it that? And you feel dumb for a second. Like, oh. Oh, okay. I remember when integrated marketing came out, I thought, oh, you mean what I've been doing since 1990? Yes, it's got a name now. Oh, okay. Ten four, good buddy.
Karen Swim, APR (10:41):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And so again, I do, but I know also that in this year, I've still heard people complain about clients who want avs. And so that tells me that we still have a lot of work to do in a lot of education.
Michelle Kane (11:04):
I
Karen Swim, APR (11:04):
Also want to point out something that I think is equally as important around this topic, measuring your time and your value. Because let's face it, PR is definitely a heavy lift. There's a lot of time that goes into what we do and to do it really well, we're not flying by the seat of our pants. The strategic planning alone can and should take time because measurement starts there. It starts with how do you want this whole thing to end? Well, you have to plan for that. So you have to plan, you have to act, you have to do, you have measure. And it takes time. So the people that are here trying to hire public relations people for less than $2,000 a month, you have to ask yourself, what are you really getting? Because PR is labor-intensive. Think about just one tactic of media relations. Takes a lot of time. That's only one tactic, and it's probably not the only thing that's in your plan.
(12:16):
So I want us, our family, our PR pros to bring their best gain land, the best clients, the ones that truly understand the value, and be able to show them why you are who you are and why you deserve to be paid what you're going to charge. And that's not the bottom of the barrel because you're offering a valuable service and you can actually drive the business. So you can align up with organizational goals. But again, it takes thoughtful planning. It takes being purposeful. It takes really understanding not only how to communicate the client's story, but how to communicate our story to the client.
Michelle Kane (13:01):
And if this feels like a heavy lift to you, it's okay. But you know what? Just take the first few steps because it'll be so worth it on the other side of it all. And we know that we've been in business for ourselves. We get it. We get it. So we have every confidence in all of you. Yeah, we do. You're like, oh,
Karen Swim, APR (13:24):
I think learning this stuff and getting better at it can refresh your career. It can make you excited all over again. And I mean, also, there's going to be days I have them where I'm like, oh my God, I cannot wait until retirement. I just want out. I don't want to learn anything else. I don't want to do anything else. This is just all too much. So I'm being transparent because Michelle and I get it. We're not just here on the podcast spouting off stuff without understanding the full scope of emotions that you feel and the reality of doing what we do. We do not have an easy job. We really and truly do not. But I think it's time for us to really amp up letting other people know why this job is so critically important, and that means bolstering the skills that will allow us to do that.
Michelle Kane (14:19):
Yep. A hundred percent. 100%. Well, we hope you've been inspired to dig in. We will have all kinds of good links in the show notes, so please do share this around. And you know what? It is coming to the end of summer, so that whole back-to-school vibe is out there. So latch onto that and let's do it. Okay. And thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on “That Solo Life.”
You are more than welcome to share the transcript (up to 500 words) in media articles (e.g., PR News, O’Dwyers), on your personal website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Substack), and/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to “That Solo Life” and link back to the soloprpro/podcast URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.
But please note that no one is authorized to copy any portion of the podcast content or use That Solo Life’s name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, X, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another’s products or services.
Got questions? Email us at info@soloprpro.com.