How AI Impacts PR Agencies and Solos with Chip Griffin

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Thank you for joining us for this episode of That's Solo Life, the podcast for PR pros and

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marketers who work for themselves. People like me, Michelle Kane with Voice Matters,

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my wonderful co-host Karen Swim of Solo PR Pro, and we are so excited to continue our crossover

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journey by welcoming Chip Griffin back to That's Solo Life. Chip, we joined you recently on your

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podcast and now here you are. Welcome. It's great to be here as always. I love being on your show.

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And we love you. You are by far one of our all-time favorite guests and our audience

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agrees because they're smart. Yes. Excellent. Love to hear it. But we may have to have a

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conversation about who's a better guest than me because then I might have to have a competition.

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I don't think that there's anybody like you are. Like when we look at our analytics,

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you were always like Chip Griffin. It's like, yup. Guest emeritus. There we go.

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Not that old. Oh, no, no, no, no. But we're so glad you're with us today because today we're

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going to talk about the landscape of what we do, PR comms, all that good stuff. You know,

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really help our listeners and each other navigate how it's looking right now.

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To say it's been a weird year or a weird couple of years is kind of an under, you know,

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an understatement. So what are you seeing out there right now, Chip?

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So, I mean, this is not the first time we've had a conversation similar to this on your show. I

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guess I'm sort of the go to for weird. So I'm not sure how to interpret that. But look, we are in

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a similar place to where we have been a number of times over the last five or six years, which is

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there's a lot of uncertainty. There's certainly economic and political and international uncertainty

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that's gripping a lot of folks right now. And so for the world of agencies and solos, that means

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we're kind of seeing a mixed bag. No, you know, I'm not hearing a lot of significant growth

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stories. I'm not hearing as many decline stories as we've heard in some past events. It's more

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stagnant. And so that's a tough place to be because it's, you know, you as a business owner,

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you sit there and say, well, you know, we're not doing great, but we're not doing terrible. So do

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I really want to change a lot or not? And then, of course, as we talked about in the first part

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of this crossover, we've got the whole umbrella of A.I. that is enveloping all of us and also

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making us think about, you know, what the future of our businesses and our careers are, frankly.

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Yeah. Yeah, that is so true. I mean, what you just said is exactly what I've been telling people,

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you know, how's business? It's like it's it's decent, could be better. And honestly, I can't

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blame those prospects out there because every day it's a new issue to consider with running

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your business. And, you know, the business world loves continuity and, dare I say it, sanity and,

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you know, ways to project and plan. And this isn't it right now. So I empathize with other

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businesses, too. I mean, look, client clients are reluctant to to make additional investments

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right now. There's a lot of pressure on on their budgets and a lot of uncertainty on their side

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that causes them to want to hold on to their cash and not spend it. Obviously, that that A.I. factor

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is also there where people are like, well, you know, should I be spending this? Should I just

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be investing in the A.I. tools and doing it myself? Should I be paying the same rates that I've been

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paying? Because, geez, it should be cheaper to get this done now because I know that whoever I'm

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working with is using A.I. to be more efficient. And so there are a lot of pressures that are

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taking place. And unfortunately, I think some solos and agencies are are looking at A.I. as a

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cost cutting tool. And, you know, in the short term, yeah, it probably is that. But over the

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long term, you need to find new ways to create value, because if you're if you're just finding

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it as a tool to cut costs, you're in a race to the bottom and you're going to be in deep

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trouble when the cost of A.I. starts going up, which we've already seen start to happen. We've

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already seen some of the providers start start drawing lines in the sand as far as usage. And,

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you know, at some point we're going to see the actual rates going up for all of us. And so it'll

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still be cheaper than humans in many cases, but not as cheap as it is today. So we need to focus

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on value, not on, you know, simply cost cutting. You know, one of the I'm interested to hear what

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you're hearing from people, because it feels like so, you know, economic turbulence. That's

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nothing new. We go through cycles. That's normal. So I think if it were just the economy, people

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would be OK. But there's so many shifts. And one thing that keeps coming up that I'm hearing a lot

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of is the frustration with the lack of transparency and communication from people. So

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business development, hot topic. People are doing it. They're being consistent.

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They are getting meetings. They're getting interest. And they go down the road with people

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and then silence. They're just ghosted for months on end. And you could fill in the blanks yourself.

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You can make up stories in the absence of information. We always do. Right. And so people

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assume that sometimes they assume it's them. Like, what did we do? They just don't want to tell us

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they don't want to move forward. I suspect that it has a lot to do with the landscape. So what

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what are you hearing that, you know, is really challenging people? And how do we respond to that?

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I mean, look, ghosting has been an issue that has been discussed in the agency community for as long

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as I've been in it. So 30 plus years. It is it is not something new. Is there more of it today?

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Maybe. But, you know, what I always tell people is that ghosting is an answer. At a minimum,

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it's not now because if someone actually wanted to move forward, they'd tell you. Right. Nobody

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is ghosting you because they just haven't gotten around to saying yes. That's that's not how it

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works. So so ghosting is, in fact, an answer. And you don't need to press for a further answer. It

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would be nice to have it and it would be be nice if people were, you know, upfront enough to say,

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hey, here's where we stand. But the reality is that makes a lot of people uncomfortable. People

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avoid uncomfortable conversations of all kinds and telling someone, you know, no, we're not ready for

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this yet or no, we went with somebody else. Really difficult. I think in most cases, it's not that

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they went with somebody else. It's just that they haven't done anything yet. I mean, that's we're

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seeing a lot of that right now where people are just in holding patterns. And so sometimes these

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folks come back months later, six months, eight months more, and they just say, yep, now we're

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ready. And that can be surprising. But again, that's happened throughout the course of my career.

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My very first agency back in the late 90s, I remember I gave someone a proposal and didn't

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hear a word from them for over a year. And then like 14 months later, they called up and said,

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we accept your proposal. And I'm like, you're going to have to send it to me because this was

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in the floppy disk era and I had no idea which floppy disk I had saved that proposal on. So I'm

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like, can you fax it back to me so that I know what I promised you I would do and how much I

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told you I would charge? And I felt kind of stupid, but they had waited so long. I was like, OK,

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well, just we're going to have to do it this way. Yeah. I mean, obviously, these days, hopefully

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you still have a copy of it and won't be in that same embarrassing situation that I was. But it

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happens and always has. So you've just got to keep moving forward, keep having conversations.

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And if you do enough of those, you will find the right opportunities. They may not come as quickly

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or as large as you'd like them, but they will come as long as you are continuing to have

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conversations. Yeah. And I think one thing does remain the same. You know, a fair amount of times

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I'll be talking with, you know, a potential client. And even as you go down the road of the

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conversations, you realize they have interest, but I see reasons why they're not ready to work with

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me. You know, they're excited. They want to achieve X. It's like, yeah, but you're doing

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this other thing that it would make sense to wait or you're not, you know, it's not for, you know,

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the jello isn't molded yet. So, no. And, you know, that can be frustrating during seasons like this.

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Absolutely. But you do have to be a realist about it. And one of your roles when you're

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having conversations with prospects is, you know, not just to sell them on what you do,

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but to vet them. And you're vetting them for fit. You're vetting them for readiness.

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And if you see a mismatch, you need to be honest with yourself first and say, this is not

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the right fit or the right time. But then you need to be honest with them and let them know that,

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you know, it doesn't really make sense to engage me right now until you've gone through these,

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you know, preliminary steps that will help produce the results that you're really looking for.

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Because, first of all, they'll trust you more if you, I mean, any time you make yourself seem,

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you know, less eager, you're more likely to have the other side interested. So,

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you know, and I know it's tough when you're short on revenue and you're sitting there looking at

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the bank account, you're like, wow, you know, I got to get some cash flowing here. So I'll say

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yes to almost anything right now. You really have to discipline yourself and say, no, this is not

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the right fit or the right time because you're setting yourself up for failure otherwise,

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which has long term negative consequences for your business and your reputation.

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I agree. You know, I also think that we're in this time now where

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leaning on the earned media lever for all of those years, and I've been saying this for a long time,

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but I think a lot of people hit that lever, hit that lever, hit that lever, and they were churning

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out hits and that's all they focused on. They didn't do any strategy. They didn't put their

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value anywhere else, even though they are, you know, skilled practitioners, they just

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push that lever. And big agencies did this too. Well, now that's changed. The media landscape

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has changed. And so we're left with people thinking that we're just a bunch of media monkeys

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and why can't you get me in the Wall Street Journal right now? And they don't understand

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the bigger value. Are you seeing agencies finally make the shift of going levels deeper and really

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being able to articulate their value and win business for things other than earned media or

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what are you seeing? Yeah. So, I mean, I think it's a mixed bag. I think there are there are

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too many that are resisting the necessary evolution that has to take place. And ultimately,

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you need to look around at this landscape and you need to say, OK, what do clients really need?

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How can I help them with the skill sets that I bring to the table or my team brings to the table

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if you're not a solo? And how can I bring that to bear to actually help achieve those results?

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And if you are insisting on maintaining things the way that they have always been,

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you're not going to succeed. And particularly in the current environment where things are evolving

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so quickly, it's the media landscape is changing. The influencer landscape is having a real impact

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on things. We can debate whether that's a good title for it or not, but that's I mean,

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that's the reality. That's how it gets communicated in the marketplace. And then, of course, as we

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talked about on the earlier episode, part one of this, AI is having a real impact on how we all do

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our business. And so we need to think about every aspect of what we're doing in the work that we're

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doing for clients, how we execute on it, what we're executing on, how we're developing the

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strategies. And if we're not rethinking every aspect of that, we are not setting ourselves up

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for future success. And so we need to be much more aggressive at rethinking things because

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we just we can't simply do the same things we did five or 10 years ago.

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So true. So true. And I think, too, I mean, the very nature of what we do,

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we should be on the forefront. I mean, because so often we are, right? It's our job to notice

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trends and to pay attention to them and to, you know, heed them. And sadly, you know, the demise

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or the, you know, the downturn in earned media opportunities has been a long, sad time coming.

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And, you know, so it's it's certainly not a surprise. And it's it's really on us to to keep

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up and be innovative and find a way, you know, at the end of the day, it's still all about

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storytelling. What story are you telling about about your client and what they have to say?

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And OK, well, how can I get that heard? Yep. And that's a key point because it's you know,

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Yep. And that's a key point because it's, you know, none of this is it's change, but not really

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at the same time, because it's the same set of skills that are simply transferred to different

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targets. So instead of trying to place an op ed in a paper, you're trying to place a blog post

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somewhere, you're creating owned content or social content instead of trying to build relationships

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with a reporter. Maybe you're building it with an influencer or, you know, a quasi professional

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journalist who has a YouTube channel or something like that. There's a lot of the same skills that

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are easily transferred. And even the strategies are pretty easily transferred. It's just you

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have to be open to that and not say, well, I'm sorry, I only talk to people from the major media

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outlets in my markets or my trade press or whatever. You've got to be thinking much more

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broadly than that if you want to be successful. And all of us need to be thinking more about,

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dare I say, the peso model, which, of course, I would be remiss not to point out because

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my co-host on the Agency Leadership Podcast, Jenny Dietrich, created it. So

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shout out to Jenny. There we go. We've given you credit appropriately. So please don't send

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me a cease and desist letter. But the peso model is really something that we all need to be thinking

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about because there's not really a place, in my view, for many practitioners or agencies who are

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focused just on traditional media relations. You've got to go beyond that. There's a small

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sliver where that still works, but it's a very small sliver and it's decreasing by the day.

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It's a really good point. I mean, are there any skill sets that you think we're missing?

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Like, do you see something that pops out at you like people are not getting this and they really

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need to learn or utilize this skill set to survive? I mean, look, I think the top of my

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list, and perhaps this is just because of what I do most days, but it's business sense. I mean,

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unfortunately, most people who are agency owners or solos have very, very poor business sense.

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And that affects you in two ways. First of all, it hurts you in how you run your own business

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because you're not thinking about things, whether it's pricing or budgeting or those kinds of things

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properly. But also, it hinders you in the work that you're doing for your clients because

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whether you're a for-profit or a nonprofit business, you still have business goals that

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you're trying to achieve. And the more that we all understand about business, the better partner we

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can be to our clients. So it helps you two ways. And so I think really improving your business

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sense, your business skills would be top of my list for every agency owner and solo out there.

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Yeah, definitely.

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I agree. I mean, I always talk about learning to speak the language of the C-suite. And I do

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think that that's where PR people really need to live there. We've talked for years about having

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a seat at the table. But if you get to the table and you're speaking like you're still at the kids

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table, that's not going to help. And speaking the language means that you actually understand it.

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And then when you understand what really matters to them, then you can align your impact against

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what's really important to them. Yeah. And you've got to understand

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the business impact of your communications, right? So a lot of times I'll see communicators

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who propose something that's a perfectly fine communication strategy that might help you get

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more coverage or more positive reviews of what you're doing, but they don't necessarily contribute

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to the business goals of the organization. And so when I see communicators do that, and they say

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they want a seat at the table, and then they come in and they start telling other departments what

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they should be doing. And it's not grounded in, you know, the actual business case for it. It's

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grounded in what would be helpful for them from a communication standpoint. And so, you know,

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you've really got to make sure that you can balance those two together, because ultimately,

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the only reason that communicators and marketers exist within the business is to achieve the

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business goals. Right. And so if we're not aligned with that, we're never going to be successful.

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So true. So true. It's my highbrow phrase to use is, so what? It's the so what factor, you know?

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Oh, so we get this attention for that. So what? What is, how does that contribute, you know,

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to the end goal of you making more money or of you growing, you know, your membership or whatever

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that looks like? So yeah, it's definitely important to have that mindset going in.

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Yeah, I think if we don't get to that, if we don't get to the impact our work has rather than just

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outputs, we're going to suffer from, you know, misaligned expectations, and that's the quickest

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way to lose a client. And that's why when you're talking with prospects or clients,

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you need to understand what they're really trying to achieve. Yes. And so when someone comes to you

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and they say, you know, we need an earned media plan to get us in The Wall Street Journal and

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The New York Times, well, why? What's, what are you trying to achieve with that? Because that way

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you can figure out, is this a reasonable way to achieve that goal? Or is there some better path

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that you can follow? Or should you just tell them, yeah, that's not possible. And so maybe we're not

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the right fit, but we're, we tend to be very excited about new opportunities that come in front

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of us. We tend to fall in love with our clients very, very quickly with our prospects and the

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ideas of being able to be creative and all of that. But we need to use our judgment. We are the

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experts. We are here for a reason, and we need to evaluate it and say, yes, this makes sense, or no,

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this is not the right path. I mean, I regularly have people who come to me for help with their

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agency, and I'll send them somewhere else, or I'll tell them, no, you're not ready for it yet.

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Because I could, I mean, I've had plenty of cases where I could take someone's money,

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but they're not going to get the result they're looking for. That doesn't really serve anybody's

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purpose. And over the long term, I'm in a better place for being honest about that than I am about

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the short-term cash I might collect. Absolutely. Absolutely agree.

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Chip Griffin, man of integrity.

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Well, let's not go too far. I just start in politics after all. So, you know, I have to be

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careful how deeply I can claim that. Well...

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But that was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

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When the integrity existed in politics.

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Well, I wouldn't say it existed, but it was certainly better than it is today,

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which I guess doesn't really say much.

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It's inexistent today. Thank you, influencer culture and social media algorithms,

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because I feel like that's ruined so many things.

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Yeah, so true.

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Sometime we could have a long conversation about what is ruined. It's a confluence of

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different factors, some economic, some otherwise. Yeah, but that's not for today's show.

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Sounds like a fun topic for the future, though.

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Maybe not recorded, though. We'll have to see.

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No, no, you're sure. Yes, yes. That's solo life in the green room.

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What would you say, you know, if you're an agency owner or a solo listening to us

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and you're like, OK, well, that's great, but like, what's one or two solid,

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what's a thing or two I can try and do in the next quarter or two to take a positive step?

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So I think that the two key things at moments like this are to listen and learn.

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And so the first part, listening. So we need to be doing more to ask questions of our prospects

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of our clients and really listen to what they're saying, understand how are their businesses

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changing, how are their jobs changing, and then thinking about what does that mean for me.

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And then the learning piece right now is to me, it's squarely around AI. I mean, I think that

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that we have we have reached a point where all of us need to be not necessarily experts in AI

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to the point where we can tell you the nuances between the different models. And unfortunately,

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a lot of the content that's out there right now around AI is this super geeky stuff,

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which I appreciate, but it's not accessible to most people. We need to be thinking more

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in practical terms. How can we use the tools that already exist to help us do what we're doing,

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not just more efficiently, but better. And I think that the more that we're learning and

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experimenting, the more we're talking with our peers about how they're using the different tools

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and tactics, the more we can develop and really evolve our businesses. Because if our businesses

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look the same two years from now, as they do today, they're not going to look the same because

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they're going to be smaller, a lot smaller. Yeah, true. That's very true. So true.

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Well, what a great note to end on, Chip. We so value you giving us your time. This crossover

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event has been so much fun. So we hope you want to do it again sometime soon. To our,

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you up for it? Love to. Love to. I mean, you know me, you give me a microphone and a camera,

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you can't stop me. I mean, I have never said no to a microphone anywhere, ever.

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And just to remind everyone, Chip, what's a good way for our listeners to

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get in touch with you, to find you out there on the Internet?

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Sure. You can find me at sagaimpact.com and all of my resources are there,

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contact forms, microchip, my little AI assistant that will answer questions as if it was me.

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My gosh, stop. In text form.

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That's adorable. I love it.

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Well, trained on thousands of my articles and transcripts and that sort of thing. It's,

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it is remarkable how similar it is to the advice I give.

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That is fantastic. Well, to our listeners, we know you've got value out of this. So I'm not

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even going to say I hope you did. And because of that, please do share this episode around.

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Hit us up at soloprpro.com with any questions or comments.

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And until next time, thanks for listening to That's Solo Life.