Jan. 20, 2025
Quality Over Quantity Will Drive PR In 2025
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That Solo Life, Episode 283: Quality Over Quantity Will Drive PR In 2025In This Episode
In this episode of That Solo Life, co-hosts Karen Swim and Michelle Kane dive into the critical topic of gaining access to the C-suite and the importance of building meaningful relationships within organizations. Communication professionals understand that their effectiveness hinges on the quality of information and insights they can gather from various levels of an organization, particularly from executive leadership.
The conversation kicks off by acknowledging the challenges communicators face in accessing the C-suite, often due to internal politics or organizational structures that can block our paths. The hosts emphasize the necessity of having a seat at the table, as it not only enriches engagements but also leads to better compensation. However, Karen and Michelle recognize that this access is not always straightforward, and discuss creative strategies to navigate these barriers.
One approach suggested is initiating dialogue with your primary contacts, such as the CMO, by asking pointed questions about their goals and recent developments within the organization. This step-ladder approach allows you to gradually build rapport and gain insights that can inform your strategies. Michelle and Karen also stress the importance of aligning your efforts with the broader business objectives and speaking the language of our marketing counterparts to foster collaboration.
Throughout the episode, the hosts highlight the shift in focus from quantity to quality in PR work. Listeners are encouraged to ask quality questions and engage in deeper conversations that matter to the business, rather than simply relying on traditional metrics.
As the episode wraps up, Karen and Michelle reflect on the importance of building trust—not only with your external audiences but also internally with clients. They emphasize that meaningful relationships are at the core of successful communication strategies, and challenge our listeners to prioritize this in their work moving forward.
Join us as we explore these themes and share insights that can help you navigate the complexities of working with clients and organizations in the ever-evolving landscape of PR and marketing. Don't forget to check out Solo PR Pro for community support and resources tailored for solo practitioners. Thank you for tuning in, and we look forward to connecting with you in our next episode!
Episode Timeline
00:00:00 - Introduction to That Solo Life
00:00:12 - Accessing the C-Suite
00:01:05 - The Importance of Influence
00:02:03 - Navigating Internal Politics
00:03:13 - Starting the Dialogue
00:04:06 - Aligning Goals with Clients
00:05:04 - Understanding Reporting Metrics
00:06:57 - The Separation of Marketing and PR
00:08:11 - Quality Over Quantity in Results
00:09:38 - Shifting Focus in the Post-Pandemic Era
00:10:47 - Building Meaningful Connections
00:12:30 - The Importance of Thoughtful Engagement
00:14:49 - Forging Trusting Relationships
00:15:25 - Conclusion and Community Invitation
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That Solo Life, Episode 283: Quality Over Quantity Will Drive PR In 2025
Michelle Kane [00:12.540]-[01:41.264]: Thank you for joining us for this episode of That Solo Life, the podcast for PR pros and marketers who work for themselves. People like me, Michelle Kane with Voice Matters, and my wonderful co-host, Karen Swim of Solo PR Pro. Hi, Karen, how are you doing today?
Karen Swim, APR [01:42.935]-[03:12.071]: Hey, Michelle, I'm doing great. Thank you. How are you? I'm doing well, doing well. We are well into January. And whether you are taking that as dry or liquid. We are here in the new year, finally. We're a couple of episodes in already by now and yeah, just ready to talk shop and hopefully give our wonderful listeners some giggles and some smarts. We hope so. We do hope so. You know, we were talking before about this topic, and it's an ongoing, I don't want to say issue or desire, right, as we try to serve our clients as best we can. And, you know, we're only as good as the information we have and or the influence that we can have. So one of the important things we need to do is really have access to the C-suite. Yeah, have that influence and really that back and forth because those are the people at the end of the day, if they're looking at the budget and going, well, we didn't get the results we wanted, well, newsflash, we need to know what you want first.
Yeah, but being us, we're not going to just talk about the bare bones of that topic because I think we all know that. We know that we need to have access to the C-suite. It gives us engagements that are richer. We actually get paid more money when we have a seat at the table. So we know that we need that seat at the table, but realistically, we also know that sometimes we're dealing with organizations where that access is blocked, not because of who we are or our value, but because of internal politics, because of the way that that organization is set up. And so sometimes we have to be creative in order to get what we need. And that includes information to do our job. So the practical like thought leadership content, but also the business and the insights into the business, because you can't simply take what sometimes your marketing contacts. So many times it's the CMO that has ownership of the PR function. You can't simply take what the CMO is saying is important, because the marketing team's metrics and reports may not really be getting the engagement from the C-suite that they want either. You need to hear from different executives in the business for various reasons, and sometimes that is hard. So what do you do?
Michelle Kane [03:13.106]-[03:53.613]: Yeah, that is the challenge, you know. I think starting that dialogue, right? Asking the right questions, even if it is of the CMO to start with, or suggesting, well, hey, you know, what are your goals this quarter? Has anything come out of your meetings? Trying to get in that way, just by asking them pointed questions. And again, not in a way that might make them feel insecure or be off-putting, of course, but going after the answers that we need, even if it doesn't mean that we have that literal seat at the table as of yet.
Karen Swim, APR [03:55.416]-[05:03.486]: I love that idea. It's almost like a, it's like a step ladder approach where you're starting where you are and you're starting to have those conversations and involving them. I think another thing that you can do is to talk with your current contact about we, you know, moving forward in 2025, we really want to make sure that we are supporting the goals that are most meaningful to you, and in your role, in your team's role. Would it be possible for us to look at a way to, to better align not only our efforts, but how we report things? Because we want to make sure that what we're doing impacts the areas that are most meaningful to you. So be willing to talk about those things. Be willing to talk marketing with your CMOs. Speak in their language the same way that you would speak in the CEO's language, because the deeper that you can get into those conversations, it can open the door to the other conversations and the other insights from within the organization.
Michelle Kane [05:04.065]-[06:00.625]: Yeah, that is so, so true. And it is something that I make a point of doing with my clients of, you know, not just going on, okay, we're rolling along, your goals are your goals, grow the business, dah, dah, dah. But it's like, well, wait a second, is growing this aspect still your goal? Is this? And that could be catching me up to it. You know, in some cases, it could be them saying, Oh, yeah, you know what, I, let's think about that. " It could go a number of ways. But don't assume that the benchmarks are going to just remain the same all the time. And I don't mean like the day-to-day or the quarterly. just the overarching themes of the desires of the business because the external world and external factors are ever-changing and impacting businesses in different ways at such a rate that we all need to be more nimble and we have to talk about it.
Karen Swim, APR [06:01.125]-[06:56.019]: Yes. I think we also all have had, or maybe have even currently, those clients where your reporting gets rolled up into a broader report and then the CMO it's typically the CMO or vice president of marketing or someone from marketing is the point person, and they present that to the executive leadership team. I think it's really good to ask to see that entire report. Hey, is that something that you can share with us as well, so that we understand how you report this? Ask them about their reporting and their metrics. What things are you benchmarking? What things were the leaders most interested in? What kinds of questions did they ask you? Because then that's going to give you a clue as to whether they're really engaged with what marketing does.
Michelle Kane [06:57.040]-[06:57.381]: Right.
Karen Swim, APR [06:57.781]-[08:07.658]: Whether we like it or not, and we understand that marketing and PR work together and that we do need to be integrated, but they are separate disciplines. Whatever the executives think about marketing, they think about you too. good, bad, ugly, or neutral. So if they've got shine, you've got shine. And if they don't, then you're looked at, you're kind of lumped in with them. So it's really important to make sure that we are partnering with our folks in marketing so that we all win. And I think We all understand that these jobs are technical and specialized and that can easily get glossed over where, you know, leaders that don't do these jobs feel like, well, why can't one person do social media and the email newsletters and the branding and the paid campaigns and, by the way, manage the PR team? because you've just asked for a lot of technical and functional skill areas to be grouped together in one big, giant thing. It's almost like asking the CEO to also be the CFO and the CTO. Can you do that?
Michelle Kane [08:11.127]-[08:28.342]: No, no. And especially, you know, in organizations of size to think that they can just have a department head of one and just handle it. And it's like, that's just, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment and frustration. And yes, these things cost money.
Karen Swim, APR [08:28.362]-[11:00.361]: Yeah. You know, it's, I think we're going to hear this a lot in 2025 . It's not going to be about quantity. It's not the quantity of media results. It's not the quantity of hours. We really have to get deeper into quality and deliver on the things that are most important. And I think because, you know, we've suffered from this, you know, evolution in the entire workforce, you know, since the pandemic, where everything was like it was all on like mass quantities and just like going hard and being productive. And then there was the recovery period. And we had way too many people because we, you know, staffed up and everything was bigger, better. It's and now it's kind of like going from the state of Texas where everything's huge. Sorry, Texas, this is not a negative. reference to going down to Rhode Island and really focusing and niching. And we're going to have a guest that's going to talk about this in one area of our communications in the next week or two. But I think it's important to ask the quality questions, have quality conversations, and then focus, really focus on what really matters to the business. So we may be doing less per client in terms of task, because that's not how we're going to win. We're not going to win success for our clients. We're not going to win those long-term client relationships with volume. We're going to do it with quality results that speak. There was a newsletter that went out from Jeanne Dietrich and there was a line that I loved because it's something that I think we all should be focusing on. It's not that, hey, we got 72 media mentions, but hey, we got these 72 media mentions and X amount of your target personas engage with this. And then of that, X amount of them went on to want a demo or have a sales call. Again, quality. So maybe your piece of media drove five new leads. And you can track that using the right metrics. But those five new leads might be worth $20 million. Exactly.
Michelle Kane [11:02.162]-[12:30.354]: Exactly. It's not the fire hose. It's a meaningful connection. And that's been a theme for a long time that I know we've all you know, been striving for, but I think now it's more important than ever. This is not a direct correlation, but I saw several statements from small businesses, small retail shops, who really were vulnerable, and they shared how it was a really difficult year, not necessarily because of the price of things or whatever, but the foot traffic was just down. And I know for a lot of us, there's belt tightening, but I know for myself, especially coming out of the pandemic, it's bad habits. And I mean bad as in, yeah, you know what? I used to pop into your store every couple of months and I just haven't been. No, no reason other than I have to leave the house. So it's just being cognizant of the way all of us have changed. And this includes the people we're trying to reach for our clients in these ways. Just being cognizant of that, and again, just like we need to ask the pointed questions. And that should be a question of, hey, let's not presume that our customer's behavior or your target audience's behavior has remained the same since 2020 or even 2022. And that could certainly impact how we go about things.
Karen Swim, APR [12:30.934]-[14:00.383]: I agree. It's almost like we're, I feel like this is the year that we slow down, that we're more thoughtful, more intentional. We're not on all of the social media channels. We're not trying to read all of the articles. We're no longer skimming things. We're taking deeper dives into the things that really matter. And I think it's a good approach to take with our work. I love the example about the local shop owners, too, because I feel that brick-and-mortar businesses have an opportunity. But, you know, at the center of all of this is creating those relationships that are meaningful, too, with our audiences, with our clients. That really matters because we, as, you know, communicators, talk a lot about building trust externally. But I think we also have to build trust internally with our clients. And doing that is showing them how what we do impacts their lives. I, you know, the shopping one is good because in the pandemic we were forced to do everything online. Everybody had to make that pivot if they weren't already there. They had to get into the e-commerce game just to survive. So we did get lazy. Click, point, you know, and it's delivered to my door. But in reality, I think we can look back and say, I bought a lot of stuff that ended up being junk that I didn't use, didn't need. Some of it was good quality. Some of it was meh.
Michelle Kane [14:00.844]-[14:01.044]: Yeah.
Karen Swim, APR [14:01.324]-[14:48.851]: How about now we get to the belt tightening years because the prices of things have forced everyone to slow down and really think. But that approach works even when prices normalize, or when you have more revenue at your pace, really be more thoughtful. Would you rather pop into a brick and mortar shop twice a year and get stuff that really matters to you, that's really meaningful, where you get to have these conversations with small business owners or shop local and support your community, or do you want 10 pointless point-and-click trips through the online stores where half of the stuff you're not using and you end up having to figure out how to purge your life of it anyway?
Michelle Kane [14:49.191]-[15:23.213]: Yeah, and that all speaks to forging that relationship, right? It's We, we all, we all have those, those needs in our lives of, you know, Hey, who's a good, what's a good vendor for this, that or the other? And you get comfort from knowing, OK, I can trust that one and that one and that one. And, that's half the battle. So I think that's our challenge to continue to get our clients on board with that. Not that they aren't, but to just really make that one of the pillars that we're seeking to, you know, strengthen in this new year.
Karen Swim, APR [15:24.326]-[15:24.866]: I agree.
Michelle Kane [15:25.367]-[15:36.675]: Well, there we go. That's another episode that you've joined us for, and we're so glad you did. Please check out Soloprpro.com, because Karen, I think I saw that membership is open again.
Karen Swim, APR [15:37.355]-[16:12.177]: Membership is definitely open, and it will be open because we need you all, and we feel like you need us. We need community. Yeah. more than ever now. It's so important. And so yeah, pop over, join, hang out with us, share. We also have a members only chat coming up this Thursday, which is the date is January 9th, but don't quote me on the day of the week. Oh, wait, that will have passed by the time. It will have passed, but there will be more. There will be more.
Michelle Kane [16:12.197]-[16:17.502]: We're just channeling you all saying, haha, we chatted. We are.
Karen Swim, APR [16:17.762]-[16:24.228]: I lost track of my days and times, but we will have had our first one and there will be more to come.
Michelle Kane [16:25.003]-[16:41.114]: Yeah. So, and you know, and if you've got something out of our time together today, please share it around. That would just make our day and, and just help, help strengthen the content that we bring to you, which is what we're all about. So we thank you. And until next time, thanks for listening to That Solo Life.
Michelle Kane [00:12.540]-[01:41.264]: Thank you for joining us for this episode of That Solo Life, the podcast for PR pros and marketers who work for themselves. People like me, Michelle Kane with Voice Matters, and my wonderful co-host, Karen Swim of Solo PR Pro. Hi, Karen, how are you doing today?
Karen Swim, APR [01:42.935]-[03:12.071]: Hey, Michelle, I'm doing great. Thank you. How are you? I'm doing well, doing well. We are well into January. And whether you are taking that as dry or liquid. We are here in the new year, finally. We're a couple of episodes in already by now and yeah, just ready to talk shop and hopefully give our wonderful listeners some giggles and some smarts. We hope so. We do hope so. You know, we were talking before about this topic, and it's an ongoing, I don't want to say issue or desire, right, as we try to serve our clients as best we can. And, you know, we're only as good as the information we have and or the influence that we can have. So one of the important things we need to do is really have access to the C-suite. Yeah, have that influence and really that back and forth because those are the people at the end of the day, if they're looking at the budget and going, well, we didn't get the results we wanted, well, newsflash, we need to know what you want first.
Yeah, but being us, we're not going to just talk about the bare bones of that topic because I think we all know that. We know that we need to have access to the C-suite. It gives us engagements that are richer. We actually get paid more money when we have a seat at the table. So we know that we need that seat at the table, but realistically, we also know that sometimes we're dealing with organizations where that access is blocked, not because of who we are or our value, but because of internal politics, because of the way that that organization is set up. And so sometimes we have to be creative in order to get what we need. And that includes information to do our job. So the practical like thought leadership content, but also the business and the insights into the business, because you can't simply take what sometimes your marketing contacts. So many times it's the CMO that has ownership of the PR function. You can't simply take what the CMO is saying is important, because the marketing team's metrics and reports may not really be getting the engagement from the C-suite that they want either. You need to hear from different executives in the business for various reasons, and sometimes that is hard. So what do you do?
Michelle Kane [03:13.106]-[03:53.613]: Yeah, that is the challenge, you know. I think starting that dialogue, right? Asking the right questions, even if it is of the CMO to start with, or suggesting, well, hey, you know, what are your goals this quarter? Has anything come out of your meetings? Trying to get in that way, just by asking them pointed questions. And again, not in a way that might make them feel insecure or be off-putting, of course, but going after the answers that we need, even if it doesn't mean that we have that literal seat at the table as of yet.
Karen Swim, APR [03:55.416]-[05:03.486]: I love that idea. It's almost like a, it's like a step ladder approach where you're starting where you are and you're starting to have those conversations and involving them. I think another thing that you can do is to talk with your current contact about we, you know, moving forward in 2025, we really want to make sure that we are supporting the goals that are most meaningful to you, and in your role, in your team's role. Would it be possible for us to look at a way to, to better align not only our efforts, but how we report things? Because we want to make sure that what we're doing impacts the areas that are most meaningful to you. So be willing to talk about those things. Be willing to talk marketing with your CMOs. Speak in their language the same way that you would speak in the CEO's language, because the deeper that you can get into those conversations, it can open the door to the other conversations and the other insights from within the organization.
Michelle Kane [05:04.065]-[06:00.625]: Yeah, that is so, so true. And it is something that I make a point of doing with my clients of, you know, not just going on, okay, we're rolling along, your goals are your goals, grow the business, dah, dah, dah. But it's like, well, wait a second, is growing this aspect still your goal? Is this? And that could be catching me up to it. You know, in some cases, it could be them saying, Oh, yeah, you know what, I, let's think about that. " It could go a number of ways. But don't assume that the benchmarks are going to just remain the same all the time. And I don't mean like the day-to-day or the quarterly. just the overarching themes of the desires of the business because the external world and external factors are ever-changing and impacting businesses in different ways at such a rate that we all need to be more nimble and we have to talk about it.
Karen Swim, APR [06:01.125]-[06:56.019]: Yes. I think we also all have had, or maybe have even currently, those clients where your reporting gets rolled up into a broader report and then the CMO it's typically the CMO or vice president of marketing or someone from marketing is the point person, and they present that to the executive leadership team. I think it's really good to ask to see that entire report. Hey, is that something that you can share with us as well, so that we understand how you report this? Ask them about their reporting and their metrics. What things are you benchmarking? What things were the leaders most interested in? What kinds of questions did they ask you? Because then that's going to give you a clue as to whether they're really engaged with what marketing does.
Michelle Kane [06:57.040]-[06:57.381]: Right.
Karen Swim, APR [06:57.781]-[08:07.658]: Whether we like it or not, and we understand that marketing and PR work together and that we do need to be integrated, but they are separate disciplines. Whatever the executives think about marketing, they think about you too. good, bad, ugly, or neutral. So if they've got shine, you've got shine. And if they don't, then you're looked at, you're kind of lumped in with them. So it's really important to make sure that we are partnering with our folks in marketing so that we all win. And I think We all understand that these jobs are technical and specialized and that can easily get glossed over where, you know, leaders that don't do these jobs feel like, well, why can't one person do social media and the email newsletters and the branding and the paid campaigns and, by the way, manage the PR team? because you've just asked for a lot of technical and functional skill areas to be grouped together in one big, giant thing. It's almost like asking the CEO to also be the CFO and the CTO. Can you do that?
Michelle Kane [08:11.127]-[08:28.342]: No, no. And especially, you know, in organizations of size to think that they can just have a department head of one and just handle it. And it's like, that's just, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment and frustration. And yes, these things cost money.
Karen Swim, APR [08:28.362]-[11:00.361]: Yeah. You know, it's, I think we're going to hear this a lot in 2025 . It's not going to be about quantity. It's not the quantity of media results. It's not the quantity of hours. We really have to get deeper into quality and deliver on the things that are most important. And I think because, you know, we've suffered from this, you know, evolution in the entire workforce, you know, since the pandemic, where everything was like it was all on like mass quantities and just like going hard and being productive. And then there was the recovery period. And we had way too many people because we, you know, staffed up and everything was bigger, better. It's and now it's kind of like going from the state of Texas where everything's huge. Sorry, Texas, this is not a negative. reference to going down to Rhode Island and really focusing and niching. And we're going to have a guest that's going to talk about this in one area of our communications in the next week or two. But I think it's important to ask the quality questions, have quality conversations, and then focus, really focus on what really matters to the business. So we may be doing less per client in terms of task, because that's not how we're going to win. We're not going to win success for our clients. We're not going to win those long-term client relationships with volume. We're going to do it with quality results that speak. There was a newsletter that went out from Jeanne Dietrich and there was a line that I loved because it's something that I think we all should be focusing on. It's not that, hey, we got 72 media mentions, but hey, we got these 72 media mentions and X amount of your target personas engage with this. And then of that, X amount of them went on to want a demo or have a sales call. Again, quality. So maybe your piece of media drove five new leads. And you can track that using the right metrics. But those five new leads might be worth $20 million. Exactly.
Michelle Kane [11:02.162]-[12:30.354]: Exactly. It's not the fire hose. It's a meaningful connection. And that's been a theme for a long time that I know we've all you know, been striving for, but I think now it's more important than ever. This is not a direct correlation, but I saw several statements from small businesses, small retail shops, who really were vulnerable, and they shared how it was a really difficult year, not necessarily because of the price of things or whatever, but the foot traffic was just down. And I know for a lot of us, there's belt tightening, but I know for myself, especially coming out of the pandemic, it's bad habits. And I mean bad as in, yeah, you know what? I used to pop into your store every couple of months and I just haven't been. No, no reason other than I have to leave the house. So it's just being cognizant of the way all of us have changed. And this includes the people we're trying to reach for our clients in these ways. Just being cognizant of that, and again, just like we need to ask the pointed questions. And that should be a question of, hey, let's not presume that our customer's behavior or your target audience's behavior has remained the same since 2020 or even 2022. And that could certainly impact how we go about things.
Karen Swim, APR [12:30.934]-[14:00.383]: I agree. It's almost like we're, I feel like this is the year that we slow down, that we're more thoughtful, more intentional. We're not on all of the social media channels. We're not trying to read all of the articles. We're no longer skimming things. We're taking deeper dives into the things that really matter. And I think it's a good approach to take with our work. I love the example about the local shop owners, too, because I feel that brick-and-mortar businesses have an opportunity. But, you know, at the center of all of this is creating those relationships that are meaningful, too, with our audiences, with our clients. That really matters because we, as, you know, communicators, talk a lot about building trust externally. But I think we also have to build trust internally with our clients. And doing that is showing them how what we do impacts their lives. I, you know, the shopping one is good because in the pandemic we were forced to do everything online. Everybody had to make that pivot if they weren't already there. They had to get into the e-commerce game just to survive. So we did get lazy. Click, point, you know, and it's delivered to my door. But in reality, I think we can look back and say, I bought a lot of stuff that ended up being junk that I didn't use, didn't need. Some of it was good quality. Some of it was meh.
Michelle Kane [14:00.844]-[14:01.044]: Yeah.
Karen Swim, APR [14:01.324]-[14:48.851]: How about now we get to the belt tightening years because the prices of things have forced everyone to slow down and really think. But that approach works even when prices normalize, or when you have more revenue at your pace, really be more thoughtful. Would you rather pop into a brick and mortar shop twice a year and get stuff that really matters to you, that's really meaningful, where you get to have these conversations with small business owners or shop local and support your community, or do you want 10 pointless point-and-click trips through the online stores where half of the stuff you're not using and you end up having to figure out how to purge your life of it anyway?
Michelle Kane [14:49.191]-[15:23.213]: Yeah, and that all speaks to forging that relationship, right? It's We, we all, we all have those, those needs in our lives of, you know, Hey, who's a good, what's a good vendor for this, that or the other? And you get comfort from knowing, OK, I can trust that one and that one and that one. And, that's half the battle. So I think that's our challenge to continue to get our clients on board with that. Not that they aren't, but to just really make that one of the pillars that we're seeking to, you know, strengthen in this new year.
Karen Swim, APR [15:24.326]-[15:24.866]: I agree.
Michelle Kane [15:25.367]-[15:36.675]: Well, there we go. That's another episode that you've joined us for, and we're so glad you did. Please check out Soloprpro.com, because Karen, I think I saw that membership is open again.
Karen Swim, APR [15:37.355]-[16:12.177]: Membership is definitely open, and it will be open because we need you all, and we feel like you need us. We need community. Yeah. more than ever now. It's so important. And so yeah, pop over, join, hang out with us, share. We also have a members only chat coming up this Thursday, which is the date is January 9th, but don't quote me on the day of the week. Oh, wait, that will have passed by the time. It will have passed, but there will be more. There will be more.
Michelle Kane [16:12.197]-[16:17.502]: We're just channeling you all saying, haha, we chatted. We are.
Karen Swim, APR [16:17.762]-[16:24.228]: I lost track of my days and times, but we will have had our first one and there will be more to come.
Michelle Kane [16:25.003]-[16:41.114]: Yeah. So, and you know, and if you've got something out of our time together today, please share it around. That would just make our day and, and just help, help strengthen the content that we bring to you, which is what we're all about. So we thank you. And until next time, thanks for listening to That Solo Life.