The New Alphabet of PR - From AEO to PESO

That Solo Life, Episode 329: The New Alphabet of PR - From AEO to PESO

The key points from the conversation are:
Gini Dietrich is a legend in the PR and marketing industry, known for creating the PESO model and her work with the Spin Sucks blog and podcast. [0:53]

Gini and the hosts discuss the importance of PR professionals embracing and educating clients on the use of AI, especially in terms of appearing in AI-generated search results. [1:53] [5:13]

They emphasize that PR professionals should position themselves as experts in using AI to enhance their clients' communication and marketing efforts, rather than fearing that AI will replace their jobs. [6:42] [8:18]

Gini and the hosts also discuss the importance of PR professionals focusing on thought leadership and storytelling, which AI cannot replace, as keys to standing out and being visible in AI-powered search and content. [11:42] [11:57] [12:36] [17:21]

Michelle Kane (00:00):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of That Solo Life, the podcast for PR pros and marketers who work for themselves. People like me, of Voice Matters, my wonderful co-host, Karen Swim. And we are so excited today, right Karen?

Karen Swim (00:28):
We are so excited. Let the confetti fall. Should we tell them who's here? It's Gini Dietrich.

Michelle Kane(00:36):
Hi, Gini

Gini Dietrich: (00:37):
Can you do my intros on my podcast? That's very good.

Karen SwIm, APR (00:40):
Okay. We would love that. This is the woman who does not even really need an introduction, but Michelle is going to do it anyway because you all know that she is a legend. A legend. Legend.

Michelle Kane (00:53):
Indeed, indeed. If you loved Spin Sucks, which I did. If you love her podcast with Chip, if you love all the wonderful things she does, the Peso model, everything she's done to keep us in line with that and all sorts of other good things, then you're going to love this episode because we're going to spend some time with you, Jenny, and just talk shop. And we are so happy that you're here for real.

Gini Dietrich (01:17):
I'm so happy. When I got Karen's email, I was like, "Well, geez, it's about freaking time." I was about to call you and go, "So can I come on the podcast?"

Karen SwIm, APR (01:27):
Oh, for goodness sake, yes. Oh yes, I'm very excited.

Gini Dietrich (01:30):
I'm very excited.

Karen SwIm, APR (01:31):
I am too. We're so happy to have you here. And you always have such good stuff to share.

Gini Dietrich (01:37):
Oh, no pressure. Geez.

Karen SwIm, APR (01:39):
Oh no.

Michelle Kane (01:40):
Good stuff. Yeah. So what have you been working on lately? What do you see out there in PR land as far as what us pros maybe should be honing into?

Gini Dietrich (01:53):
Well, you know AI, of course. AI is everywhere. I actually have had a recent experience with some men in our industry who a couple of them have forgotten. There's a tool called Google and there's also a tool called Artificial Intelligence where you can look things up and get an answer pretty fast, but they've forgotten about that. And so they've pontificated on social media about how the PESO model is a decade old and hasn't been updated or evolved. So there's been a little bit of education, I would say, of late on why that isn't true and why you might just drop into ChatGPT and say, "Hey, chat or G as my kid calls her model. Has the PESO model been updated in 2025? What's it going to look like in 2026?" That's all you have to do. So we've been doing a lot of that kind of stuff.

Karen SwIm, APR (02:57):
Yeah. In 2026, my wish for the world is that people will remember that they have a brain and start to use it. Perhaps. Critical thinking is a dying skillset. And you're right, we have all of these technological tools to find information and still people would rather bash a legend in the industry who created something that we all utilize that has made us all better practitioners, that showed us how to have robust PR programs. And if they thought it hadn't been updated, I wonder if any of them thought, "Hey, I have an idea. Maybe I should, I don't know, reach out and ask." Yeah, there's a thought.

Gini Dietrich (03:50):
Go to spinsucks.com. Ask Google. I don't know.

Karen SwIm, APR (03:53):
Because it's been everywhere. Right.

Gini Dietrich (03:55):
I feel like it has

Michelle Kane (03:56):
But my agenda, I want to write a think piece outside of.

Karen SwIm, APR (04:06):
And they want to bash somebody and get the algorithm all excited that they have something to say and tell people call you out in the comments and say, "So you're wrong.”

Gini Dietrich (04:21):
Yep. It's the rage bait. My child also likes to do that, the rage baiting. I'm like, "Dude, men do this. Do not do this.

Michelle Kane (04:32):
" Yeah, that's a bad thing. Men, teenagers.

Gini Dietrich (04:37):
Not all men,

Michelle Kane (04:38):
Not all men

Karen SwIm, APR (04:40):
This is why we actually, and I've said this before too, I love men. No shade to y'all. Love men. Very good men in PR too. But in general, we see in our profession that sometimes the women's perspective is lost and there are things that we bring to the table. And I think that's why it's even more important to see women in AI so that these models are not gender biased. We need perspective.

Gini Dietrich (05:13):
Absolutely. Yeah. In all seriousness, and that actually did happen and that is what I'm spending my time on right now. But I've been paying really close attention to what chief marketing officers and chief communications officers are looking for at a really strategic level at really high level. And one of the things where I think as PR professionals, and especially those of us that own our own businesses and work for ourselves, because we have a little more control over what we can do and how we can approach the industry and the market is I keep seeing over and over again, we really need experts to come in and teach our marketing and communications teams how to use AI, not just prompting it, but how to incorporate it into our systems, into our workflows so that we become better at it. How do we edit it? How do we prompt it?
(06:05):
What kinds of outputs should we be looking for? Once we get an output, what should we be thinking about? What process should it go through? And I think that's a really big opportunity for us this year in 26, which is really thinking about how do we teach our clients how to implement this? Because I know there's a lot of fear around it. I know there's a lot of fear of, well, gosh, if I teach them how to do it, then they probably aren't going to need me. And I don't think that that's the case. I think that we're still going to be needed. I mean, you both use AI, you see the output, it definitely still needs people. Yeah.

Karen SwIm, APR (06:42):
Yeah. It's that, and I do talk about this. I've had these conversations with CEOs of clients where we talk about how you elevate humanity when you use technology in the right way. So we've been at the forefront of talking about the ethics, talking about privacy. Even within enterprise grade models, you still have to kind of treat it like a public billboard. There's ways to prompt so that you're not feeding it too much information. And there's ways to prompt obviously where you get smarter answers. And as you said, incorporating it into workflow, because if we're making people more emficient and we're taking away those rote tasks, those things that happen all the time and you're training on that, then you're actually getting more out of your human beings because we can use our time and our brains for higher value tasks, which is a great thing for everyone.
(07:39):
I get that some jobs are going to go away. I don't want to ... But it's not going to be like, PR is dead. We're never going to do it because the robots are going to do it. But no, but we can teach our clients how to AI things for their explainer videos. You can make an AI model of yourself. You can have an AI newsroom. They're doing this in Arizona. It's beautiful. It's a great thing. It allows them to do more. Yes. So yeah, some jobs are going to go away, but Michelle and I have said on the show often that remember when we had telephone operators,

Gini Dietrich (08:15):
Right? Right. Right.

Karen SwIm, APR (08:18):
Yeah. We don't have those anymore, but there are other jobs. There are new jobs that didn't exist then. And so I mean, we'll all be okay. Take a deep breath. Don't be afraid.
Gini Dietrich (08:28):
Yeah.

Michelle Kane (08:29):
What is it? The only constant is change.

Gini Dietrich (08:32):
That’s Right.

Michelle Kane (08:34):
Things evolve. And as we've been saying, it's our opportunity and really our responsibility to be the lead on anything and all things comes so people understand because yeah, sure, there will be those clients that think it's that prosumerism, right? Oh, I've got a Mac, I can design an ad. No, you can't, stop. You like my art?
(09:01):
But it'll be really terrible. Yeah, you're not using that. No. No. Be my guest.

Gini Dietrich (09:09):
I think the other thing we forget is that the new SEO is, there's lots of different names for it. There's AEO, there's GEO, there's AIO, but whatever you call it, we have to show up in AI answers. So when somebody prompts chat or perplexity or Gemini or whatever it happens to be, are you showing up? Well, guess what makes you show up? Owned and earned media. Not marketing, not product, not services, owned and earned media. And those are the two things that we control. So I think in 2020, we had a really big opportunity that we flubbed where George Floyd was killed and all of a sudden, many company leaders said, "We need to figure out how to communicate our values." And throughout history, the whole time, business owners have been told, "Do not talk about your values, do not talk about religion. Those are the things that are polarizing and are going to make some customers go away."
(10:23):
But then this happened and we were in the middle of a pandemic and a really chaotic presidential environment and then George Floyd was murdered and we had this social justice movement where we all said, "Okay, it is time to take a stand." And every company leader on earth said, "I need to learn how to do this. " And I think as an industry, we flubbed that opportunity because we didn't say, "We are the experts in this. We are the experts in communicating values. We are the experts in communicating reputation. We are the experts in protecting reputation. Let us help you. " And instead, we let the marketers do it just like we normally do. And now we're in a different environment where it's not important anymore and DEI has been erased from so many different places and it's really bad. And so now I think we have another really big opportunity to stand up for something that we can do and take ownership of it.
(11:24):
And that is AEO or GEO or AIO, whatever you want to call it, showing up in AI answers because it's owned and earned media. Those are the two things. So please, let's as an industry take control of this and say, "This is what we do the best."

Gini Dietrich (11:41):
This Is what we do.

Karen SwIm, APR (11:42):
You know what I love about AI search and the AI answers is that it actually rewards thought leadership, which is, again, this is what we do best.

Gini Dietrich (11:56):
Real Thought leadership.

Karen SwIm, APR (11:57):
Yes. Real thought leadership. So this is not the junk that we saw sometimes in the past with SEO where you're cramming keywords and phrases. This is
(12:06):
Really being thoughtful about what is your audience asking? And I mean, I'm sure you guys have had this experience. I noticed this first with myself, how my searches really did become more complex questions because there were things that I wanted to know. If I want an answer, I want to be specific and I'm not looking for like, "Oh, what's the cutest pair of sweatpants?" My question is a little bit more nuanced than that. I want to know what sweatpants are going to keep me warm when the temperatures hit below zero and that I could walk my dog in and that won't so like all of the slobber that all of her friends get over me. And by the way, they also should be cute and they need to- I think
Gini Dietrich (12:51):
She's actually thought about this.

Michelle Kane (12:53):
Yeah, a little bit. Did you find said sweatpants?

Gini Dietrich (12:56):
Gini What sweatpants didn't you find?

Karen SwIm, APR (12:58):
I do have dog walking pants. I have found them because this is an important piece of my life. But I mean, your audience has questions. Are you answering them? So this is way more than keyword stuffing than God. And your audience has a brain and you're asking thoughtful questions. So this is an opportunity to give thoughtful answers, but you can't do that without the strategy that a professional communicator can deliver to you. So I love that you brought that up, right?

Gini Dietrich (13:33):
Yeah. I think in the second half of 2025, we talked about visibility engineering and how you can engineer this visibility. And I know it sounds like, I don't know if I really want to engineer visibility because it's not really what I want to do, but they're robots. So of course you can engineer it because you're not engineering humans, you're engineering the robots
(13:56):
And really thinking about, am I answering those questions, those really nuanced contextual questions through our owned media, and then how am I promoting that through earned? And that's what it is. I mean, it's those two pieces. Of course, you want to share it on social and you want to amplify it through paid so that you have a full pace and model program, but that's the foundation. Your own media is your foundation. And then you're using those other outposts to bring people back to answering those questions. And in some cases, those questions are going to be answered in AI and you can be in charge of that. So when you're going into a new business meeting, you can say to show up in AI search, to show up in AI answers, there is one way to do it and it is to engineer visibility and this is how you do it.

Michelle Kane (14:42):
Love that. And especially in, let's say a crowded field, an industry that's a crowded field and you're looking to stand out. I know just in the automotive industry for search, it's the more you pay, the more you're sitting like with anything, right? Absolutely. But the guys get tired of hearing, "Just give us more money." And I'm like, there's no way to do it. Don't have to just prove for it.

Michelle Kane (15:07):
I have a blog on your plate.

Gini Dietrich (15:14):
Never let us be in the same room together.

Michelle Kane (15:18):
No, it's got to happen now. But I mean, I can't believe I'm excited about 2026 now.

Gini Dietrich (15:27):
I know. Yeah. It's super, super cool. I think we have a really big opportunity here and we should not float this one.

Karen SwIm, APR (15:35):
We shouldn't. And I think that we have to remember that some of the things that always mattered still matter. Grabbing people's hearts and their minds and telling a story and engaging them, that's never going to go out of fashion. I have a nephew that, he's an adult and he's in the hospital and the Christmas story is his favorite Christmas movie. Now, he's in his mid 30s and he is fully digital. So he's scrolling TikTok and Insta and all the social and watching all this stuff, but he will stop and watch the Christmas story like every single time it's on. He'll watch it back to back. Watch it back to back. Because it's a story that still resonates. And I look at it and I'm like, they play this movie in a loop and people watch it. Peter Billingsley, is that the kid that was in it?
(16:33):
He's an old man. And they still love this movie.

Gini Dietrich (16:42):
It's a pretty great movie. I'm not going to lie.

Karen SwIm, APR (16:44):
It is a great movie. And you can't replace that kind of storytelling with AI. You just can't. That's right. That's right. You could replicate the visuals, you could AI and actors, but that story, that thing that grabs people and gets them to watch year after year after year, even in this digital world, that's pretty amazing. And that's the stuff that keeps me going is if we just focus on what matters and then align our strategies, yes, there are new strategies, there are things, but what we do at the heart of our profession really has not changed.

Gini Dietrich (17:21):
No. No. It didn't change with inbound marketing. It didn't change with social media. It didn't change with content marketing. It's not going to change with AI. To your point earlier, Michelle, if you talk about thought leadership and real thought leadership, not sounding like everybody else, what do you have? What do your subject matter experts have a real opinion on that can provide real value? That's thought leadership and we tell the story. AI can't replace that. And I think you'll find in anybody who's talking about how this all works, you'll find that everybody says those are the things that differentiate you from Google on down. Even Google has said expertise, authority, and trust are three of the most important things. So demonstrate those things through your storytelling and that's where you'll win every time.

Michelle Kane (18:12):
Love it. 100%. Oh, this was so nice. What a nice way to spend some time. So you know we're going to have you back sooner than it took us to get you on here. I would hope so. Yeah.

Karen SwIm, APR (18:28):
Nobody's got time to wait. I was so embarrassed because Jeanie's not ... We talk about her all the

Gini Dietrich (18:35):
Time.

Karen SwIm, APR (18:36):
Do you think she'd want to?

Gini Dietrich (18:39):
I got your email and I was like, okay, well now I don't have to be like so ... Do you want to come on? Hello,

Michelle Kane (18:46):
I exist. Well, we can't thank you enough. Where's the best place for ... Well, for the five people on the planet that might not know where to find you, what's the best way to connect with you? Spinsucks.com.

Gini Dietrich (19:01):
Woohoo. Easy. I love it. Thank you so much for having me. I love hanging out with

Karen SwIm, APR (19:07):
You. We love hanging out with you. Thank you. I got you. Thank you so much. This has been ... Even in our talk prior to, you shared some stuff and I'm like, "Oh, I got to go look that up." So you always have good stuff. And we want you all, if you're not already listening to Janie's podcast, we'll often share episodes from what they're doing as well and they just put out great content and of course got to follow her on LinkedIn. And she is a master storyteller too. Yeah. You are such a great storyteller. I would love for you to take some of those stories and just go ahead and write the books.

Gini Dietrich (19:47):
Just write them. I know. I need to.

Karen SwIm, APR (19:49):
Yeah. They're so enjoyable. So if you're not following her, I'm not sure why you wouldn't be because you're new here. Maybe you just graduated. I don't know your reason, but I'm just, like Michelle said, for the five of you out there, we'll put everything in the show notes. We

Michelle Kane (20:08):
Will.

Karen SwIm, APR (20:08):
Thank

Michelle Kane (20:09):
You so much to your Alyssa.

Gini Dietrich (20:10):
Thank you for having me.

Michelle Kane (20:11):
Oh, thank you, Jenny. Thank you. And hey, yeah, please do share this episode around because hello, it's great info. And until next time, thanks for listening to That Solo Life.

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