The Power of Storytelling in an AI World

That Solo Life, Episode 279: The Power of Storytelling in an AI World

Michelle Kane [00:18.240]-[00:59.582]: Hello, and thank you for joining us for another episode of That Solo Life, the podcast for PR pros and marketers who work for themselves. People like me, Michelle Kane with Voice Matters, my wonderful co-host, Karen Swim of Solo PR Pro, and we have another amazing guest with us today. We have another fellow solo smarty, Lisa Gerber of Big Leap Creative. Lisa offers personal one-to-one programs, storytelling workshops, and much more, as she helps leaders and organizations engage authentically and effectively with their audiences. And she's going to do the same thing with us. Hi, Lisa. We're so excited to have you back.

Lisa Gerber [00:59.582]-[01:02.765]: Thank you both. I'm so excited to start my day with you.

Karen Swim, APR [01:05.767]-[01:42.017]: Lisa has heard this from me probably way too much, but she's absolutely one of my favorite people. She's so authentic. She's so smart and her stories draw you in whether she's talking about dogs, whether she's talking about one of her clients. She just, everything she does is story. And it reminds me of, um, there's a woman named Rosa Say, if you don't know her, she talks about talking story and it, to me, you do that. Like your life is story. Beautiful. So I love it.

Lisa Gerber [01:44.120]-[01:49.382]: Thank you. I should start every morning with a little boost from Karen and Michelle. Sure.

Karen Swim, APR [01:49.382]-[02:06.249]: We would love to do that. We can, you know, we can send you recordings to remind you how amazing you are. Morning affirmations. Think in 2025, Michelle.

Michelle Kane [02:06.249]-[02:29.304]: I like that. Yes. I mean, why not? We could do a little, we could go on cameo. Anyway, bringing it back to you, Lisa. You are the storytelling queen, and you've taught thousands how to tap into that power. Why is it so important, do you believe, to lead with a story?

Lisa Gerber [02:30.496]-[04:16.632]: Well, stories set the tone, it sets the energy, and I think that people expect to be bored if it's a meeting or a presentation or any ongoing business interaction. I see that all the time. And when I personally start a talk with a story, and I inevitably get a comment back, like, Oh, you had me at the story about XYZ at the beginning. So it captures attention. And whether it's a personal story, or it's a story that creates deeper understanding around a topic, people connect with it, right? I mean, we all know that it helps create connection and understanding. But I love the way it's an invitation to just a bigger conversation that leads to better relationships. And when we do that over time, when we have this habit of storytelling, people choose us, they'll choose you. And they become less, if price is the context, like if it's a buyer situation, they become less price sensitive. But it's that emotional connection and it shifts the energy. That's really You know, there's something else about it, though, in case you're, you know, in the sense of storytelling, when we're presenting, sometimes we're nervous. And when we start with a story, it sort of creates this comfort level between the teller and the listener. So the listener is like, oh, this is going to be different and we settle in and enjoy the story. But from the teller perspective also, it's like, OK, I'm going to start with this story, which is really easy to tell. I don't have to remember all this data, all these bullet points and my talking points and all this stuff. And then you kind of can settle into it from there. So there's a certain comfort that happens.

Karen Swim, APR [04:17.407]-[05:24.887]: That is so true. I always knew that stories were memorable. When you tell a story, people remember that. They remember that more than facts and data and key points. But you just said something that I don't think we talk enough about, even in business. It's creating those emotional connections. And I think in business, sometimes we miss that just because we are selling cars or technology or healthcare. It does not mean that it has to be professional or technical or the inside jargon. It doesn't have to be marketing speak that people are still human beings. And when you communicate with any time that you can create that emotional connection, you have their attention. and love that you bring that out and tell us, you know, some ways that you think because you teach this and you do workshops on this, what are some barriers that prevent people from breaking through to making that emotional connection through story?

Lisa Gerber [05:24.887]-[06:40.258]: Well, the first one that comes to mind is that we think that we shouldn't make it about us. And I'm not saying that it always is about us, but our personal stories matter. And whether our personal stories are an invitation. So when you share something about yourself, it's really interesting the way the listener receives that story, the way they consume it is that they're listening to it through their own perspective. And inevitably, something unexpected happens where they respond with their own story of a situation. I had a client who started a presentation where she had to thank sponsors and ask for money. And it wasn't a very exciting message, but she just opened up with a little vulnerable story about herself. And afterwards, people came up to her and shared their own story in the same theme. Hers was about rejection and they shared their own story completely unrelated to the topic at hand. And so you see how that creates like this, this invitation to have a better conversation. So the biggest barrier I see is in not making these interactions personal.

Michelle Kane [06:40.258]-[06:55.188]: So true. I always say that all business is relationship and that it's not purely transactional. You have to establish that trust and just that realm of, you know, the word is escaping me right now.

Karen Swim, APR [06:55.990]-[08:10.149]: I mean, I think there's also probably a little bit of fear involved in revealing yourself at work. I mean, you know, think about college essays. They ask you for an essay. They have your grades, they have your scores, but they want to see who you are as a human being. And people struggle to write those essays because you are in a situation which is, you know, at that stage, you're like, probably the most professional thing that you've had to do. So people in professional settings see that, like, we have this mindset about being professional, and what's expected, and what's acceptable, and then to reveal part of your humanity in those settings can feel really, really challenging and scary because we all go back to that little kid on the playground. It's like, will people like me still? Absolutely. Will they make fun of me? Is that a dumb story? Will they think I'm weak? Will they think that I'm incapable of my job because I shared a story about how I cried at work once? And you know, you don't have to dig deep and reveal trauma, but just making those connections by being a human being and sharing personal experiences that are relevant to that moment.

Lisa Gerber [08:10.149]-[08:49.844]: And it's when we hold those, those very stories that we hold back are the very stories that allow us to stand out, right? Yeah. I mean, it's like this, this conundrum. And yeah, we, but it's, it's interesting when you just start little by little and you see the reaction. And of course our story is not going to be for everyone. Not everyone's going to, you know, love our story and we have to be okay with that. And that's where the risk and the fear comes in. It's like, okay, not everyone's going to be interested in this story, but it is going to attract the right people. And when you want to, you know, find that alignment and work with people like in, in, in our solo PR, we want to work with people that we're aligned with. Right. That's why we do this.

Michelle Kane [08:50.444]-[09:09.473]: Yeah, exactly. And, you know, and I think it's the vulnerability of it all, because let's face it, if someone is seeking your services, they are, they are in a vulnerable spot, there's something they need. And when we answer with, you know, some sense of that, I think that does help create the relationship. Yeah, for sure.

Lisa Gerber [09:10.186]-[10:15.549]: You know, I just wanted, there's one, if I may, I wanted to share like a second layer to the barrier question. Because it's not always about the personal stories, right? Sometimes it's about the organization or, you know, a work or a topic of some sort. And I think that the second big barrier is assuming the way we talk about the thing, is the way others need to hear about it. It's meeting that, bridging that disconnect. So understanding where they are in their journey to get to know you or the work that you do, where they, what their knowledge is, so that we can message it accordingly. We, you know, professionals, get so immersed in the work that we do and very technically proficient and knowledgeable. And we tend to talk about things from our perspective and not the way that others want to hear about it. So that's where story really can help bridge that gap because it makes it a little bit more understandable. But what is that story is the key question.

Michelle Kane [10:15.549]-[10:18.852]: I love that. Definitely, for sure, for sure.
Karen Swim, APR [10:22.607]-[11:11.535]: Lisa, we live in a moment in our history that's pretty uncomfortable because we have fragmented and we live in our silos. And as professional communicators, we are encountering brand new challenges of being able to speak to those audiences, which are sometimes diverse, right? Our audiences are not monolithic, right? Tips for telling stories in times like this, when everything feels like a tender box, you throw out a word and it, you know, it catches fire in the wrong way. And then you're under attack. And it can feel daunting to be able to satisfy just our publics with our words.

Lisa Gerber [11:12.020]-[12:45.190]: Yeah, it's so hard, right? I mean, anything I'm about to say is easier said than done, for sure. Let's just preface it with that. I think that in this time of polarization, all caps, I think that if we can come from a place of not judgment, what's the opposite of just open-mindedness? We immediately jump to judgment about people who don't share the same views as we do. And I think that's where the root of the problem is. And there's righteous rants and gleeful gloating, depending on what side you're on. That's so true. That type of voice and that approach and tone just does not work on either side. Right. So I just think coming from a place of, it sounds so cheesy when I say it, of curiosity and open-mindedness. But really trying to understand why does a person think that way instead of just assuming that they are dumb, they're uneducated, and we just, I see it all the time. I see it in my family members. I see it in friends. And I think if we can stay away from that rhetoric and yeah, just be nonjudgmental, whatever you want to say, Michelle.

Michelle Kane [12:45.410]-[13:29.142]: No, I mean, you're definitely on to that. It's the why, right? Because we can assume we know why. Well, I know why you think that way. But sometimes when you try to dig deeper of, okay, I hear what you're saying. How did you come to that thought, feeling, conclusion? Yeah. Sadly, oftentimes it's where they're getting their information from. Their sources are just bubbled and siloed. And then that makes it really challenging to bridge and to come to an agreement when you're not really even on the same plane with things. But yeah, I think fear and security, a lot of it is mixed in and just, like you say, digging into why. Yeah.

Lisa Gerber [13:29.142]-[14:06.484]: You'd be surprised that we maybe aren't as far apart in values as we think we are, and they're making decisions purely based on, say, putting food on the table and all these other social issues are less of a priority because they're just surviving. This is just one example. But there's just other reasons people show up the way that they do. And there is an amazing video done by Heineken in 2017. They did a campaign called Worlds Apart. And they show individuals from, are you, are you familiar with it? Have you?

Michelle Kane [14:06.784]-[14:11.025]: It's tickling my memory, so I'll have to look it up, but I think I might have seen it.

Lisa Gerber [14:11.025]-[14:45.692]: They bring people in with very deeply varying perspectives, and they shoot their opinions first, and then they bring them into a room, just the two of them, with instructions on to build a table, and then put a beer on the table, and then have a conversation. They're just talking about random things, and then they play the videos for each other to see how they actually feel. I'm not doing a good job of describing it. What it does is it shows how conversations bring people together, people of deeply divided perspectives.

Karen Swim, APR [14:49.279]-[14:51.199]: I really like that. Yeah.

Lisa Gerber [14:51.199]-[14:59.842]: And so when we get to, when we understand, when we get to know them at a deeper personal level, it's really, it's a lot harder to hate them. Ooh.

Karen Swim, APR [14:59.842]-[16:50.549]: Yes. You're 100% correct. And I think, you know, the reason that our jobs are a little more difficult these days, just another level of difficulty, but, but we got this is that, the things that are happening in the world around us are often very personal. So you have to manage your own emotions and your own feelings, and then be able to communicate past that. I love that that means that we have to be just like journalists to that code of showing up unbiased and asking a lot of questions to really understand our audiences, digging deeper than ever before to get to what's really going to move them. How do we communicate this in a way with compassion and respect? for varying opinions and how do we ensure that we are not contributing to polarization? And that is, it is easier said than done, but I believe, you know, again, and we've talked about this for years in public relations about, you know, really acknowledging our own cognitive biases and that gets more challenging as the world around us gets more challenging. I think of that are experiencing wars in other countries and reacting to the reaction or non-reaction to what is a very personal situation or some of the big societal issues, how you feel about immigration and brands are sometimes involved in those areas tangentially and You have to still communicate with your audience, but you have to take heart and respect for everyone.

Lisa Gerber [16:50.549]-[18:02.966]: I love that you said acknowledging our cognitive biases, and I think this is a better explanation of being curious. When I said, you know, we have to be curious. I will make myself listen to things that I know. Okay. So this is, I don't know how to not be specific about this, but I specifically listened to the Elon Musk interview on Joe Rogan. I haven't gotten through the whole thing, but I was like, I need to hear this so that I can understand. I need to understand. And so it is, it's listening to that. And then actually, are these things true? Like, is what they're saying true? Because they actually do make an argument. And so then that's the thing. It's like, okay, don't just block out other things. But let's really figure out how to find the truth. Yes. It's scary. I mean, they make some crazy claims. I'm like fact-checking Joe Rogan, Elon Musk conversation, and no one's written that article, by the way. There you go, Lisa. If anyone's listening.

Michelle Kane [18:02.966]-[18:08.768]: No, but truth is everything. You can't have a good relationship without truth. Right.

Karen Swim, APR [18:08.768]-[19:29.094]: That's true. And that also means, though, that we as communicators cannot do what our communities around us are doing and put ourselves in situations where we're validating what we already believe. We have to challenge our own beliefs and our own perspectives. And that means, again, to me, it means digging deep on your audience, really digging in there. What are they watching? What are they reading? What are their challenges? What concerns them? All of those things will make us much better at our job. And by the way, this is the one thing that AI can't do. I know there's so much about AI and how it's going to take away every bit of content creation in every area of our lives. It is a beautiful tool, but it cannot be a human being, no matter the programming. It just can't. It can't because it doesn't have a heart. It doesn't have a brain. It doesn't have life experiences. It doesn't have relationships. with other human beings. And so we can use AI to do a lot of things, but then it's us that has to bring all of those things to life and bring that humanity into it. And I think, you know, storytelling is the one thing that's going to survive the test of time because it's proven that.

Michelle Kane [19:29.802]-[19:49.318]: Right. Yeah. It's so true. I mean, I know one of the questions I will ask clients at the start of a new relationship is, you know, tell me where it hurts. What are your pain points? Hey, I can't deliver that. You know, they can't deliver the nuances of experience. So, so agree. I agree. Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa Gerber [19:50.399]-[20:07.791]: Yeah, it probably can. I haven't asked it to create a story, but I've heard others that have asked it to write a poem in the voice of XYZ or whomever. So it's amazing what it can do. But to your point, exactly. It can't make the human connection. I mean, maybe it will one day. I don't know.

Michelle Kane [20:09.632]-[20:11.915]: Well, we'll wait and see, won't we?

Karen Swim, APR [20:11.915]-[21:18.676]: Musk might think that, so he might say, just do it. Of course you can. I asked Steve, I have Newsday on me too, just as a funny little experiment. I was like, gave him some details about the dogs and said, you know, write a story about this, the children. or ages, you know, four to seven years old. And it did write the story. And I said, huh, it's pretty good. But of course, while the story is there in words, it still takes the human being to say the words are right. And thank you because that, you know, for somebody who's never written a children's book, it helps me to kind of see the pattern and the template. But what you don't, is the relationship that I have with all of the dogs that I just told you about. I gave you words, but I didn't give you all of those other little details and how their faces look. And you can't communicate that for me. I could do that. So you're right. It does create a pretty decent story that I got to tell you.

Michelle Kane [21:19.936]-[21:52.314]: I mean, think back to Charles Schultz, right? How we learned over the years that so much of his own personal disappointments and even traumas were channeled through his comic strips. And it's just like, I don't see AI doing that anytime soon. But I mean, we know, Lisa, you've always been so true to yourself and unafraid to pivot compassion. What is lighting you up right now? Like what ways, you know, is \that impacting your day to day?

Lisa Gerber [21:52.314]-[23:35.580]: Well, first of all, it's absolutely snowing buckets outside my window. So when you said what's filling up my day, and I was looking at it just coming down, that first of all, is the foundation of filling up my day. Yeah, excellent. skiing being central to my life and winter just being my favorite season. So that's great. And it's really on the heels of our conversation today is what's going on in our landscape and how the very work that I do, it doesn't change, is just more needed than ever. And so I'm loving helping others navigate, helping leaders, helping emerging leaders communicate to connect. And I have been keynoting. So I have this, I have a keynote called Power of Story. And I've been working on this for the past year, but it's just become, it's like one of those things, you know, when you're like, what is the quote? Is it Wayne Gretzky? Where you like, go where the hockey puck is going. Yeah. So unintended, but it's just, you know, how stories bring us together. When we make it personal, we make it matter. We make it better. I love and I have a book coming out. Did I even tell you this? No. It's really soon now. I've just been up and down with this. It's called The Power of Story. And I'm pretty sure it's going to be out by December at this point. I stalled on it, stalled on it. I rewrote it, all this. It's just been so, so that that will also be a little project to get into.

Karen Swim, APR [23:35.580]-[23:39.523]: Is there a pre-order link? Because we definitely want to let our listeners know.

Lisa Gerber [23:40.250]-[23:44.012]: I can make a pre-order link by the time this goes live.

Michelle Kane [23:44.012]-[23:51.315]: Not to put you on the spot or anything. No, that's easy. We want it. Thank you for that.

Lisa Gerber [23:51.315]-[24:26.606]: I know you'd think I would have talked about this in our pre-call, but I think at that point I was like, no, this book isn't ready to see the world. And then just something happened overnight. I'm like, no, this isn't actually Thank you so much. Because the first one, I think you know about that one, is from So What to So Funded, and that's written specifically for a nonprofit audience. And I really wanted to write something a little bit broader. And so my thinking has evolved. And so it's very different from the one for the nonprofit audience, but it's definitely just how to be real, relatable, and riveting. I can't even remember the subtitle right now.

Michelle Kane [24:26.606]-[24:28.967]: That's a pretty darn good tagline, actually.

Karen Swim, APR [24:31.847]-[24:39.954]: I'm thrilled for you. We can't thank you. Of course, that means you have to come back and chat with us.

Michelle Kane [24:39.954]-[24:44.378]: Yeah, sure. Sorry, you have to come back.

Lisa Gerber [24:44.378]-[24:49.243]: Is it going to start with all of these compliments and all of these really wonderful things about me?

Karen Swim, APR [24:49.243]-[24:49.703]: Are you kidding?

Michelle Kane [24:56.730]-[25:04.637]: So if you would have one little nugget of inspiration for our listeners to take away, no pressure, what just comes to mind?

Lisa Gerber [25:04.637]-[25:43.033]: Nugget of inspiration? Well, I would just go back to our personal stories. And if you're listening and you feel hesitant to even just show up as who you are instead of who you think that you should be, just start trying in less risky environments and start to see what happens. And my clients, when I coach them through this, and they start to do it more and more, it's just like, it's really eye opening to see how people react when you share a little bit about yourself, when you shed a little bit of who you aren't really because you're just trying to fit in.

Michelle Kane [25:44.317]-[25:45.577]: That's so true.

Lisa Gerber [25:45.577]-[26:11.903]: Yeah, I mean, and if you want to hear something really good, this something that I've been really sharing out is a podcast interview on the Aspen ideas podcast interview with David Brooks. It's a couple years old, maybe now, and it's on connection. And I just think that's an incredibly inspirational podcast to listen to. It's not specifically about storytelling, but it's about connection and storytelling is the vehicle for connection.

Michelle Kane [26:12.343]-[26:20.186]: Yeah. Especially now. Right. And let's give a little shout out. You have a podcast too, I believe. What is the title of that podcast?

Lisa Gerber [26:20.186]-[26:57.729]: Well, thank you very much, but I have not been, um, there's no new episodes, but it's still live. Okay. So it's called breaking trail. Excellent. And the idea of breaking trail, is that obvious in a non-outdoors world? Breaking trail is like making your own path. In skiing, you're like breaking, you're the one in front, like pounding out the trail. And so that's what it's about. It's about the stories of leaders, entrepreneurs, nonprofit leaders who are doing life on their terms and not the way, you know, society says we should be doing it.

Karen Swim, APR [27:00.931]-[27:36.709]: If you were just leaning in, listening to Lisa and her wisdom, we will have all of these links in the show notes. So check show notes and you'll be able to get the links. You'll have links to be able to connect with Lisa. Um, and thank her for being on the podcast and thank her for sharing her wisdom with us. So, and we will have her back because she's got a book coming out in December and also we'll get an order link so that you can order a couple of copies and give them out as stocking stuffers.

Lisa Gerber [27:36.709]-[27:37.589]: Beautiful.I love it.

Michelle Kane [27:37.589]-[27:38.590]: Yeah. I think that's a great idea.

Lisa Gerber [27:38.590]-[27:47.872]: Thank you. And I'd love to have conversations with anyone. If anyone is interested in following up, wants to learn more, chat, has questions.

Michelle Kane [27:47.872]-[27:52.133]: Yeah. Love it. What's the best vehicle? Hit up your website?

Lisa Gerber [27:52.133]-[27:57.054]: Yeah, on my website. There's actually a link to schedule a half hour chat right on the website.

Michelle Kane [27:57.054]-[27:59.855]: Wonderful. Would that be bigloopcreative.com?

Lisa Gerber [27:59.855]-[28:06.894]: Yes. Cool. These are so good. You must be in PR. Maybe I should go back to school.

Michelle Kane [28:06.894]-[28:40.977]: We're thinking about it. We're thinking about maybe going down that path. We're not sure. Oh, Lisa, it's so great to spend time with you. These episodes are so special. And I know we certainly get so much out of just spending time with you. And we hope our listeners are getting the same. And listeners, if you want to hear more chats like this, you know, hit us up, let us know. Visit SoloPRPro.com and make your voice heard. And of course, please do share this around because we know this is an episode well worth sharing. So until next time, thanks for listening to That Solo Life.