It's Time to End Jargon, Ghosting and Last-Minute PR

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MICHELLE KANE:
Hey, Karen I need you to circle back with me
on something.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
I will literally end this podcast.

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MICHELLE KANE:
That is exactly the reaction I was hoping for
because today we are not just burying words.

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We're opening up the whole jargon graveyard.

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Whoa! Tis the season. Oh,
welcome to That Solo Life,

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the podcast for independent PR and
communication pros who are building a

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business, not just freelancing between
contracts.

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I am Michelle Kane of Voice Matters,
and I am with my wonderful co-host.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
Karen Swim, and I'm the president of Solo PR
Pro,

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and I need everyone listening to bring a
shovel because we got more than jargon to

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bury today. So this episode is perfect for
October,

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and it touches on something that we've all
vented about at one time or another some

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client pattern or something that we're sick
of

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happening. Yes we are.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Yes. We're gonna bury these things.

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Yeah. I mean, we started this just as a
jargon episode,

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but then, you know, we looked at our list and
realized there is a whole graveyard of

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corporate and client behaviors that we would
like to bury right alongside circle back.

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So yeah, so let's start digging,
shall we?

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
Okay. So some of the stuff that we're
covering today is,

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you know, it's, it's backed by some,
you know,

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real research, a lot of yada,
yada, two studies in particular,

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but some of it is just shared practitioner
experience.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Seriously. Yeah. Okay,
let's, let's get going.

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Grave number one, we're laying to rest
corporate

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jargon. Let's go.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
So my gosh, okay, so here's what's what's
actually new and interesting this time.

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Not not the tired circle back survey that
everyone recycles every January.

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Cornell just published some real research on
this.

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And there was this cognitive psychologist
named Shane Latrell,

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and he built something called a corporate BS
receptivity scale.

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That's interesting. Right? And so they tested
about a thousand workers on whether they

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could tell real corporate language apart from
made up nonsense,

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built from real buzzwords.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Oh my gosh, I love this.

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And what did he find?

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
So he, he found that people who fall for the
meaningless version also score worse on an

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actual workplace on workplace decision making
test.

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So falling for jargon isn't just annoying,
it's correlated with weaker judgment on the

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job. Wow.

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MICHELLE KANE:
That's that's that is truly scary.

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And yeah, I mean, that's deeper than just
everyone hates using the word synergy.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
Yeah. And I mean, I think,
you know, he made a distinction that I really

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appreciate that, you know,
we have our ordinary shorthand,

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right? Specific to your workplace.

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And that's fine. It's,
it's actually even useful.

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It's yeah. The problem is that when jargon is
used to make something try to sound smarter

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or more impressive than it actually is.

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MICHELLE KANE:
I mean, isn't that the truth? And I find I
don't know about you, but the more I'm,

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the longer I'm solo. I think the less we're
exposed to that.

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And I mean, I could even go back as far as,
you know,

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all of a sudden, all of the things we do as a
comms pro is integrated marketing.

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And I'm like, oh, I must be falling behind.

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I don't know what that is. And then I
realize, oh,

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that's what I've been doing the whole time.
Okay. Next.

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But but yeah, and that's,
that's important.

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That distinction is, is the theme of what
we're,

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you know, talking about today,
right? It's the difference between useful

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shorthands and just, you know,
putting on a costume and it's just empty.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
Totally agree. And there's another study from
the University of Florida with nearly 2000

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people tested with a jargon filled versus
plain language version of the same onboarding

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email and jargon made people process
information worse,

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feel less confident and less likely to ask
for help.

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MICHELLE KANE:
How about that? Which,
you know, creates more of an makes you more

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isolated you know, and puts you further in a
silo.

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Just kind of like I touched on before,
which is convenient because that's another

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grave today.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
Silos it is. And we're going to get there.

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So. So just for the fun of it,
you know some of the most hated phrases from

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that old properly survey new normal culture
and circle back all tied at 43%.

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Rest in peace to all three.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Ha.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
So I'm curious, what would you add to this
list?

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MICHELLE KANE:
Oh my goodness. I mean,
circle back should have its own mausoleum.

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But let's see. Ghosting which we're going to
get to just,

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just any, anything that they throw letters
together and I'm supposed to know what that

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is? Yeah. And you find out what it is.

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You're like, it's just what we're talking
about,

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right? Oh, it's just empty value to make
yourself seem smarter.

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And when I'm seeing this used with client
facing meetings,

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you know, like if it's a vendor that comes in
and throws all these terms around, I'm

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immediately suspicious.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
Yeah.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Clearly how these studies are showing. Right.
Already my,

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my radar's up of a are you even any good?

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If you're just trying to dazzle us with your
jargon.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
Bs yeah.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Yeah. I don't know. How about you?

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Do you have any hall of fame?

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
I'm trying to think. I mean,
I, I do agree though,

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like I, I know a lot. I know the acronyms,
but I've been on calls with colleagues and

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you could just see like what?

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And it's not that they're not smart.

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It's just we don't talk in acronyms to each
other.

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We we speak plainly. So it's something that,
you know,

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and that you know what it means and you're
doing. But then why does everybody have to

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use the A, B, C's? It's just frustrating that
people cannot just speak.

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Right. So yeah, I mean,
for me you know, before that it was revert

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back. How about let's talk again or I'll get
back to you.

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Like, could we just, I don't know,
say what we mean.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Say what you mean. Yeah,
I'll let you know.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
I'm even starting to hate KPIs,
honestly.

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And and I know we know what KPIs are,
but when you're always talking about the KPIs

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and you know, it, it just is annoying.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Yeah, it kind of loses its

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value, right? Yeah.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
It does.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah.

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So of course, you know,
if you're in a graveyard during Halloween

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spooky season, you might encounter some
ghosts,

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some ghosting.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
Yeah.

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MICHELLE KANE:
You know, hey, you're have meetings,
you submit the proposal and then poof,

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they're gone. Nothing.

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You don't hear a thing.

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And we know this is all too common.

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And you know, it's not to diss the people who
ghost you.

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It's I get it, life gets busy.

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You have other areas of focus,
but you know,

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all it takes is one line.

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Just let me know what's up.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
It's so rampant. Right?

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And so we didn't need data for this one
because we've all lived this.

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Whether you're a solo,
whether you're in-house,

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whether you've applied for a job,
sometimes just reaching out for contractors,

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you know, in your personal

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professional life, like.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Yes.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
This is so real.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Yeah, yeah, it really is.

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It really is. And, you know,
and it's, it's usually disappointing.

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I mean, look, I, I'm still a firm believer
that the work that's meant for you will come

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to you. Sometimes it just takes a while.

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But, you know, we're human.

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So when you put energy out into a proposal or
into some discovery calls or,

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you know, whatever you've done.

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I we say this all the time,
you know, because of the work we do,

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we get invested, we start to care a little
bit and,

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and then nothing. And then you're just like,
oh,

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okay, well, can we complete that circuit,
please?

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
Yeah. And I mean, truthfully,
this, this has been going on since the dawn

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of time, right? People have always not gotten
back to you,

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but I feel like it's ramped up a lot.

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So, you know, one thing that helps me is to
remember not to internalize it because

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silence rarely is about you personally.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Correct.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
It's really about the other person.

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So it could be something internal.

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So the person that reached out realizes that
now their,

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their budget is frozen.

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They don't have funds to hire you or that
they're encountering resistance internally or

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priorities of change or the leadership has
changed direction or they're they're about to

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go through an acquisition.

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I mean, it could be any number of things that
really have nothing to do with you.

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And sometimes it may be just that they chose
someone else.

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But it, it saying no felt awkward.

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So they just disappeared.

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And this is, this is something,
you know, I feel like people have very

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stunted social skills.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Yes.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
And post Covid so they don't understand that
that business etiquette that used to exist

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exists that you just,
you know, will at least get back to somebody

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that you've had a bunch of meetings with and
they've given you time, they've given you a

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written proposal, you've had meetings,
you've had these discussions.

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The least that you can do is just get back to
them with a no.

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That's that's respectful.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Exactly. It's all they ask.

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But and you know the one thing I've learned,
you know,

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even though it does stink,
I've, I've seen on a few occasions that guess

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what? I'm not the only one. They're ghosting
with everything.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
True.

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MICHELLE KANE:
So we have good company.

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We have each other.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
I mean, it's true, but it doesn't make it
hurt any

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less, right? So.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Oh, exactly.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
I mean, I think that if we just recognize
look,

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this is not me, this is a pattern.

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It happens. And it's not a personal
rejection.

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And I just have to build this into my
business.

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I have to understand that I can't chase one
proposal,

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put all of my time into it,
have a bunch of meetings and expect that

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because they all went good and there were
positive signs that this is going to close

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quickly. So I mean, we these days we have to
allow for long business development cycle.

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And unfortunately, you better have a lot of
irons in the fire all the time.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Yeah.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
That's something pops out because it.

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MICHELLE KANE:
It just seriously. Yeah.

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Now. Now more than ever for sure.

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Alright, alright. Ghosting.

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See you later. All right.

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Grave. Grave number three.

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This one is near and dear to our hearts.

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Last minute PR or PR is an afterthought.

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Or hey, our events next week.

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Can you get eyes on it?

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
I have so many feelings about this.

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We've never done PR before,
but we're announcing next week and we want

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something splashy.

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MICHELLE KANE:
Sure. Get me a bucket.

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No there's actually a current piece on this
in Fast Company.

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They published it this spring,
and it was written by an agency CEO and her,

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her core point confirmed directly from the
piece.

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The companies that benefit most from a big
announcement.

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Guess what? They started building the
visibility long before the announcement ever

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existed. So, you know,
a lot of times I will,

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in my internal dialogue grumblings,
say, you know,

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this is not a fast food drive through.

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Pr is not a fast food drive through.

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You can't just decide you want it.

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Pull up. Get. Get what?

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Get your results in 30s.

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Like you have to nurture these things and
become known and trusted over

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time. So yeah.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
I, I couldn't.

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SPEAKER 3:
Agree with you more.

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KAREN SWIM, APR:
And no shade to practice practitioners,
but I,

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I. It really grieves me when I,
and I saw something like this recently on

219
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:37,760
LinkedIn where somebody had reached out,
you know to a group to,

220
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,240
to a PR group And they needed PR.

221
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,200
And it was, you know,
it was like over a weekend or something.

222
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:52,680
And they had lots of people respond and it
was for a last minute project.

223
00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:57,760
And I always, you know,
I didn't say anything because I never want to

224
00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,080
make people feel bad. And I understand that
it's been a really tough year.

225
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:05,360
So I understand that inclination,
like somebody comes at you with business that

226
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:10,040
you want to say, yes,
and I'll even go so far as to say nothing

227
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,200
wrong with that, right?

228
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:15,240
You gotta, you know, listen, try bills to pay
and you've got

229
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:16,280
stuff to do, but.

230
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:16,840
MICHELLE KANE:
Right.

231
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:21,560
KAREN SWIM, APR:
I won't celebrate that because I know from
many,

232
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:29,640
many years of practice that last minute PR or
PR as an afterthought is all about tactics.

233
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,320
It has nothing to do with strategy or real
impact,

234
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:42,240
and it's not going to give you the grace and
space to be anything other than a media

235
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:43,320
barista. Like.

236
00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:44,880
SPEAKER 3:
Yes.

237
00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:46,400
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Go make me some coffee.

238
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:47,240
SPEAKER 3:
Yes.

239
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:51,360
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Bring in the earned media hits and it's going
to be all about kids and things that don't

240
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:56,520
really make the real business impact that's
going to be sustainable.

241
00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,880
So then you'll just hop from one thing to
another.

242
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,360
And if that's your jam,
that's your jam.

243
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:08,920
But I don't think that in these days that's
going to make for predictable,

244
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:10,320
sustainable income.

245
00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:16,200
MICHELLE KANE:
Right. Absolutely. And you know,
we know and our our listeners know you can't

246
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:21,440
build trust and momentum on the same timeline
as just attention.

247
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:26,200
Get eyes on this. You know,
the trust takes time because even then you,

248
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,080
if you get the short term attention,
people are going to say,

249
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:35,120
well, who are you? As opposed to,
oh, here's that thing from that entity that

250
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,480
we know a lot about because we know their
story by now.

251
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,440
So yeah, it does matter.

252
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,840
It does. But hey, but hey,
can you get can you get me something?

253
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:46,280
Can you get me cameras tomorrow?

254
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,480
SPEAKER 3:
No no.

255
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:50,600
KAREN SWIM, APR:
No.

256
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:57,080
SPEAKER 3:
Can try. Yeah. All right.

257
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:58,120
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Where are we?

258
00:15:58,720 --> 00:15:59,840
SPEAKER 3:
We gave.

259
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:04,960
MICHELLE KANE:
Number four. I feel like I should have my
Jacob Marley chains.

260
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:10,880
We already teased on this misalignment inside
corporate teams.

261
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:12,560
Oh. Oh, the. Whoa.

262
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:14,280
SPEAKER 3:
Yeah.

263
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,280
KAREN SWIM, APR:
So there mural the collaboration software
company,

264
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:24,120
they, they surveyed marketing sales and R&D
professionals and this was last year and they

265
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:29,400
found what they call the 8585 go to market
alignment gap.

266
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:37,210
So 85% of people are confident in their
processes and the same exact 85% report

267
00:16:37,210 --> 00:16:41,130
experiencing actual misalignment weekly or
monthly.

268
00:16:41,130 --> 00:16:42,050
SPEAKER 3:
So they're.

269
00:16:42,050 --> 00:16:44,930
MICHELLE KANE:
Confident, but they're confused.

270
00:16:45,890 --> 00:16:48,650
SPEAKER 3:
Yeah, I'm confidently confused.

271
00:16:49,570 --> 00:16:50,570
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Does

272
00:16:51,610 --> 00:16:53,330
SPEAKER 3:
Does that feel like this whole year?

273
00:16:53,770 --> 00:16:56,210
That's true. 2026.

274
00:16:56,250 --> 00:16:58,250
KAREN SWIM, APR:
We found your theme confident and

275
00:16:58,250 --> 00:16:59,810
confused. Yeah.

276
00:16:59,810 --> 00:17:00,770
SPEAKER 3:
Same people.

277
00:17:00,770 --> 00:17:01,450
MICHELLE KANE:
Those were not my.

278
00:17:01,450 --> 00:17:02,410
SPEAKER 3:
Words.

279
00:17:02,410 --> 00:17:03,770
MICHELLE KANE:
At the beginning of the year. But hey.

280
00:17:04,530 --> 00:17:05,970
SPEAKER 3:
Yeah. So they have confidence.

281
00:17:05,970 --> 00:17:09,930
KAREN SWIM, APR:
In the plan but constant friction in the
execution.

282
00:17:09,930 --> 00:17:11,530
SPEAKER 3:
So yeah, that's.

283
00:17:11,530 --> 00:17:15,050
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Happening at the same time,
which is, I don't know.

284
00:17:16,410 --> 00:17:21,370
I don't know. So you know,
this, this is a company that sells a tool

285
00:17:21,370 --> 00:17:25,250
that solves this problem. So take it with a
grain of salt. But I,

286
00:17:25,650 --> 00:17:28,010
I think that we all see this in our world
too,

287
00:17:28,010 --> 00:17:33,090
and I. Caitlyn Mccrady talked about this on
our podcast about how she's created something

288
00:17:33,130 --> 00:17:36,890
to make sure that teams are aligned because
this is this is a thing.

289
00:17:37,130 --> 00:17:41,250
MICHELLE KANE:
Oh, it's so true. And,
and often because, you know,

290
00:17:41,290 --> 00:17:45,170
we're translating between departments within
a company we don't control,

291
00:17:46,050 --> 00:17:49,010
we can't get in there and crack heads and
make sure they all know,

292
00:17:49,050 --> 00:17:50,530
you know, are on the same page.

293
00:17:50,690 --> 00:17:54,410
That's out of our realm,
but we do our best.

294
00:17:54,410 --> 00:17:59,050
And I think it's just a natural occurrence in
so many companies.

295
00:17:59,050 --> 00:18:00,890
It doesn't make them bad people.

296
00:18:01,250 --> 00:18:03,290
It doesn't make them bad at business.

297
00:18:03,330 --> 00:18:08,610
It just a culture thing that really hasn't
been resolved for.

298
00:18:11,490 --> 00:18:13,330
And I think too, it's again,
it's.

299
00:18:13,570 --> 00:18:14,890
Oh, is that really necessary?

300
00:18:14,890 --> 00:18:18,170
Well yeah it is because oh,
I could go on a rant.

301
00:18:18,170 --> 00:18:21,890
I'm sure if your employees were more invested
in what was happening day to day, knowing

302
00:18:21,930 --> 00:18:23,930
what's going on, they might be more invested
in,

303
00:18:23,970 --> 00:18:26,530
oh, I don't know your company and not be so
inclined to leave.

304
00:18:27,210 --> 00:18:29,810
KAREN SWIM, APR:
I feel like there would be so much success,
right?

305
00:18:29,810 --> 00:18:34,570
Which is why in our corner of the world,
we really have to force that alignment and

306
00:18:34,570 --> 00:18:38,410
make sure that there's communication across
teams.

307
00:18:38,410 --> 00:18:39,330
SPEAKER 3:
Yeah.

308
00:18:39,330 --> 00:18:44,930
KAREN SWIM, APR:
This is part of our job as strategic advisors
because I see it.

309
00:18:44,930 --> 00:18:49,530
I know what happens. They do this big master
plan and they have this spreadsheet and they

310
00:18:49,530 --> 00:18:53,210
have these goals, you know,
big organizational goals.

311
00:18:53,210 --> 00:18:56,530
And then they drill it down and then
everybody has their metrics and then

312
00:18:56,530 --> 00:18:57,890
everybody, you know, looks.

313
00:18:57,890 --> 00:18:58,650
SPEAKER 3:
At their all.

314
00:18:58,650 --> 00:19:03,170
KAREN SWIM, APR:
We're doing this for doing that. We're doing
that. But nobody's looking to see over here

315
00:19:03,210 --> 00:19:08,530
or talking over there about,
okay, are we aligned on the common goals?

316
00:19:08,570 --> 00:19:11,290
Like everybody does have a role to play,
right?

317
00:19:11,330 --> 00:19:16,730
But you're acting like individuals,
like walled off from everybody else and your

318
00:19:16,730 --> 00:19:21,050
metrics look good. But did did you really
achieve the big,

319
00:19:21,090 --> 00:19:26,090
the big goal, which could be achieved
together by everybody working as a team and

320
00:19:26,090 --> 00:19:29,250
really having this transparency that doesn't
happen.

321
00:19:29,250 --> 00:19:31,490
MICHELLE KANE:
Yeah, no, you're right,
you're right.

322
00:19:32,490 --> 00:19:33,850
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So that.

323
00:19:33,890 --> 00:19:35,930
Yeah, that's where we become therapist.

324
00:19:36,290 --> 00:19:37,290
SPEAKER 3:
Yeah.

325
00:19:37,290 --> 00:19:39,730
MICHELLE KANE:
All right, hit me. Grave number

326
00:19:39,730 --> 00:19:41,050
five. What have we got?

327
00:19:41,770 --> 00:19:46,930
KAREN SWIM, APR:
I think this one is It's similar,
but it's a company.

328
00:19:47,250 --> 00:19:48,330
They don't have a brief.

329
00:19:48,370 --> 00:19:50,490
They don't have any goals. They just want
grass.

330
00:19:50,530 --> 00:19:51,650
Just get us some press.

331
00:19:51,650 --> 00:19:52,250
What do you.

332
00:19:52,250 --> 00:19:52,770
SPEAKER 3:
Want?

333
00:19:52,770 --> 00:19:55,090
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Just. We want to be in the Wall Street
Journal.

334
00:19:55,090 --> 00:19:58,010
We we want to be in the New York Times.

335
00:19:58,010 --> 00:19:59,130
We just want press.

336
00:20:00,570 --> 00:20:02,730
MICHELLE KANE:
Love that. And that's kind of where,
you know,

337
00:20:03,050 --> 00:20:07,690
you're left to kind of magic something out of
thin air in the pitch if you're so inclined.

338
00:20:07,690 --> 00:20:12,130
Or I often whittle it down to here's my
jargon for it.

339
00:20:12,130 --> 00:20:14,170
I call it the so what factor you want?

340
00:20:14,170 --> 00:20:15,890
Press. So what? Tell me.

341
00:20:15,930 --> 00:20:18,730
Give me something. I can't just say.

342
00:20:19,050 --> 00:20:20,250
These are nice people.

343
00:20:23,810 --> 00:20:27,210
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Well, no, Michelle, because you have a
contact list.

344
00:20:27,530 --> 00:20:29,300
Don't you have contacts there.

345
00:20:29,620 --> 00:20:31,620
MICHELLE KANE:
Yes, you're right. They're going to care.

346
00:20:31,660 --> 00:20:33,260
They're nice people. What do they do?

347
00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:34,660
What do they got? I don't know.

348
00:20:35,020 --> 00:20:36,020
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Yeah.

349
00:20:36,020 --> 00:20:39,420
MICHELLE KANE:
They do things. They make stuff and I don't
know.

350
00:20:41,140 --> 00:20:42,140
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Yeah.

351
00:20:42,140 --> 00:20:43,460
MICHELLE KANE:
Wall Street Journal, please.

352
00:20:44,940 --> 00:20:49,500
KAREN SWIM, APR:
I mean, known by whom?

353
00:20:49,540 --> 00:20:51,660
For what? And so that.

354
00:20:51,700 --> 00:20:55,260
What happens next? Can we even just start
there with some basics?

355
00:20:55,260 --> 00:20:59,260
I don't know, because we don't lead to
measurable outcomes.

356
00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:01,660
MICHELLE KANE:
Oh, give me something to hang my hat on here,
people.

357
00:21:01,700 --> 00:21:03,980
Otherwise, you know, it's a big old bag of
nothing.

358
00:21:04,660 --> 00:21:06,020
Let's create something.

359
00:21:06,540 --> 00:21:08,300
Yeah. To answer. So what?

360
00:21:08,340 --> 00:21:15,180
Yeah, yeah. So. Yeah. All right,
on to grave six crisis only engagement,

361
00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:20,020
where a company only calls a PR person when
something is already on fire.

362
00:21:22,140 --> 00:21:25,300
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Yes. I actually, I love crisis work.

363
00:21:26,260 --> 00:21:29,620
But when you have no proactive plan.

364
00:21:29,660 --> 00:21:31,860
You've done none of the underlying work.

365
00:21:31,900 --> 00:21:38,380
You are going to pay. And I've seen companies
pay dearly for somebody to come in and fix a

366
00:21:38,380 --> 00:21:43,500
mess. So there is this older it's it's really
an old survey,

367
00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:53,500
but from PR news and Csna and they found that
about 62% of companies had

368
00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:59,940
a crisis plan of some kind,
but relatively few kept it updated or

369
00:21:59,940 --> 00:22:03,500
practiced it. So they had,
you know, I mean,

370
00:22:03,820 --> 00:22:08,140
I think that that dynamic probably does still
exist.

371
00:22:08,180 --> 00:22:10,660
MICHELLE KANE:
Oh, I'm sure it, it may even be higher.

372
00:22:10,660 --> 00:22:14,380
Right. And and what a joy that is,
right?

373
00:22:14,380 --> 00:22:19,100
The company that's never invested in ongoing
calm suddenly wants a full blown crisis plan.

374
00:22:19,140 --> 00:22:22,340
You know, get to know us,
know all the nooks and crannies, you know,

375
00:22:22,580 --> 00:22:25,540
combat this bad news in 48 hours.

376
00:22:25,540 --> 00:22:27,020
Once a story breaks, it's like.

377
00:22:27,340 --> 00:22:30,100
Okay. Yeah. Sure.

378
00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:37,020
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Agreed. I mean, and we all know that crisis
response works a lot better when there's an

379
00:22:37,020 --> 00:22:42,380
existing relationship,
existing trust and existing infrastructure.

380
00:22:42,380 --> 00:22:45,380
But when you're called in to build all three
from ground zero,

381
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:50,500
that fire is burning and you're just trying
to save pieces of the building.

382
00:22:51,060 --> 00:22:55,060
MICHELLE KANE:
And I really wish, again,
getting back to that trust that companies

383
00:22:55,060 --> 00:22:57,900
would really begin to value.

384
00:22:58,820 --> 00:23:02,060
You may not think it's not,
you know, so we talk about this all the time,

385
00:23:02,060 --> 00:23:04,940
right? Can you draw a direct line to a bottom
line?

386
00:23:04,980 --> 00:23:09,340
Not always. But that trust is priceless.

387
00:23:09,740 --> 00:23:12,580
And you need it. All right.

388
00:23:12,620 --> 00:23:14,500
Grave number seven. Last one.

389
00:23:14,660 --> 00:23:15,660
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Yeah.

390
00:23:15,660 --> 00:23:23,220
MICHELLE KANE:
Vanity metrics only success impressions a V,
and nothing tied to an actual business

391
00:23:23,220 --> 00:23:24,470
outcome. Yeah.

392
00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:27,110
KAREN SWIM, APR:
We just did an episode on this.

393
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:32,030
So that will share that episode in our show
notes.

394
00:23:32,030 --> 00:23:39,190
So yeah, I mean, when a client only wants to
see impression counts or a B and they never

395
00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:45,270
really ask about, you know,
how those numbers really moved the needle for

396
00:23:45,270 --> 00:23:49,310
them, then. Yeah, you're,
you're circling the grave.

397
00:23:49,670 --> 00:23:58,670
MICHELLE KANE:
Yeah, yeah. Haha. So yeah,
check out that, that podcast if you haven't.

398
00:23:58,670 --> 00:24:01,470
I suddenly I feel like I'm doing an episode
of traitors.

399
00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:04,590
Right? Where's Alan? Alan coming.

400
00:24:04,590 --> 00:24:07,470
Where are you? Are you a faithful or a
traitor?

401
00:24:07,830 --> 00:24:13,110
Yeah. Anyway, so let's let's work this as we
like to do.

402
00:24:13,150 --> 00:24:16,630
We always love a good filter,
a good framework to carry this through.

403
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:20,310
It'll be a three question filter.

404
00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:22,150
Same formula as always.

405
00:24:22,150 --> 00:24:23,670
So question one.

406
00:24:25,470 --> 00:24:26,470
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Yeah.

407
00:24:27,150 --> 00:24:29,830
MICHELLE KANE:
Is this a pattern I can name and plan around?

408
00:24:30,350 --> 00:24:35,990
Or am I treating a normal recurring dynamic
as a personal failure every single time?

409
00:24:36,030 --> 00:24:38,390
Gosh, don't do that. Ghosting.

410
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:42,470
Whether it's that or misalignment or
prospects who don't know what they want

411
00:24:42,510 --> 00:24:44,910
without a brief, you know,
those are patterns.

412
00:24:44,910 --> 00:24:49,430
Those are just. And I think too,
it's where we have the chance to educate

413
00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:55,390
people. It's, you know,
yeah, it's not down to a verdict on whether

414
00:24:55,390 --> 00:24:57,430
or not we're good at our,
our profession.

415
00:24:58,150 --> 00:24:59,950
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Yeah, I love that, Michelle.

416
00:24:59,950 --> 00:25:03,230
And then I would say that the second question
is,

417
00:25:03,270 --> 00:25:07,990
you know, is there a real goal in an audience
underneath,

418
00:25:08,030 --> 00:25:13,310
you know, a request? So or is it,
you know, vague enthusiasm,

419
00:25:13,310 --> 00:25:14,910
wearing a strategy costume?

420
00:25:14,910 --> 00:25:20,950
So I think that question kills,
you know, alone almost half of the grave.

421
00:25:20,990 --> 00:25:23,390
Number five and most of grave number one.

422
00:25:23,390 --> 00:25:26,110
MICHELLE KANE:
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. All right.

423
00:25:26,110 --> 00:25:28,190
Question number three for ourselves.

424
00:25:29,470 --> 00:25:35,790
KAREN SWIM, APR:
With this survive, like would it not be dead
on arrival with enough lead time,

425
00:25:35,910 --> 00:25:40,910
real alignment and a clear brief instead of
urgency and improvisation,

426
00:25:40,910 --> 00:25:42,150
improvisation, rather.

427
00:25:42,150 --> 00:25:47,350
Sorry. I clearly need coffee today or
something.

428
00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:50,670
I need a nap. Really? So if the honest answer
is no,

429
00:25:51,430 --> 00:25:55,550
then that's the actual problem to solve,
not the deadline.

430
00:25:55,550 --> 00:25:58,030
MICHELLE KANE:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

431
00:25:58,750 --> 00:26:02,670
Actually, I think now I know,
I don't know if would people get it if I have

432
00:26:03,110 --> 00:26:05,350
empty strategy as my Halloween costume this
year?

433
00:26:05,350 --> 00:26:08,630
Probably not. All right.

434
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:10,350
Let's let's do a quick drill.

435
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:11,790
Oh, I'm all football here.

436
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:14,630
Let's run a drill. Okay.

437
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:16,950
We got seven graves and one filter.

438
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:19,830
Let's say a listener gets a request.

439
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:23,030
We need press for a launch happening in nine
days.

440
00:26:23,230 --> 00:26:24,470
We don't have a brief.

441
00:26:24,990 --> 00:26:27,710
We have three different internal
stakeholders,

442
00:26:27,710 --> 00:26:31,110
all with different ideas describing the
announcement differently.

443
00:26:31,150 --> 00:26:36,550
Oh, gosh. Run. And the client mentioned in
passing that they ghosted their last PR for

444
00:26:36,550 --> 00:26:39,030
Mid-project Hrodna.

445
00:26:40,630 --> 00:26:41,630
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Right.

446
00:26:41,630 --> 00:26:42,830
MICHELLE KANE:
It's not a tragedy.

447
00:26:42,910 --> 00:26:43,910
SPEAKER 4:
It is.

448
00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:47,310
KAREN SWIM, APR:
How often has this happened though? Oh yeah.

449
00:26:47,310 --> 00:26:49,870
We have an announcement going out on this
date and we need PR.

450
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:52,830
And then they want you to write a press
release in 25.

451
00:26:52,830 --> 00:26:57,790
People are weighing in on it,
and they're all over each other and

452
00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:59,550
contradicting one another.

453
00:26:59,550 --> 00:27:04,310
And the product person says this,
but the CMO says this,

454
00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:06,310
but then the CEO goes,
no, not this.

455
00:27:06,310 --> 00:27:11,510
And then you, you lose track and then you
can't even keep up with all the changes.

456
00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:14,150
MICHELLE KANE:
So seriously, talk to me when you figure it
out.

457
00:27:14,150 --> 00:27:17,550
So pattern or personal failure,
well, it's not a personal failure.

458
00:27:17,550 --> 00:27:20,680
Clearly they've got a they've got a pattern
of dysfunction.

459
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,280
Of course this isn't. Well,
is it an extreme example?

460
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,840
Probably not. Yeah. And then yeah.

461
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:27,880
Well we take it through.

462
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:28,920
Question two.

463
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,960
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Yeah. Is there a real goal underneath all of
this mess.

464
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:38,240
And probably not yet. But you know,
you have all these conflicts,

465
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,640
right? But I think that if you can reframe
the conversation,

466
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,840
then that's your first deliverable.

467
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,480
It's, it's a one page alignment brief before
any media outreach starts.

468
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,800
MICHELLE KANE:
Absolutely. Yeah. We start teaching them now,

469
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,960
say, nope, this is how it's done. And then
question three can this survive proper lead

470
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,120
time and process? Nine days.

471
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,560
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Yeah, I don't think so.

472
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,440
And I think we have to really because and.

473
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:06,240
SPEAKER 4:
And.

474
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,880
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Let me say that even when we really need
money.

475
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,920
And, and I'm being really real here because
yeah,

476
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,680
that is where a lot of us have been sitting
this year.

477
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,360
I mean, business development in a lot of
sectors has been a long,

478
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,960
hard slog. And we've seen a lot of budgets,
you know,

479
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,320
go away. Just a lot of things that we've been
pressed.

480
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,600
But this is pressure. You know,
when you are given an unrealistic timeline

481
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,360
and asked to do something,
I would say I'm not saying don't take the

482
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:40,840
business, but is there a way that you can
reframe that by saying,

483
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:45,040
listen, in order to be successful at this,
is there room on that timeline?

484
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:46,600
Yeah. Can we move that

485
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:47,840
date? Here's why.

486
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:48,680
MICHELLE KANE:
Yeah.

487
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,400
KAREN SWIM, APR:
That's where you have to take a deep breath
and be a strategic counselor.

488
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,800
If there's no room on the deadline,
can you can you change the actual goals?

489
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,200
Okay. Here's what we can do.

490
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,400
Yes, of course we can put out a press release
and we can put that on the wire.

491
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,440
But simultaneously, why don't we work on a
longer term goal of really establishing your

492
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:09,720
thought leadership or doing.

493
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:14,320
I mean, maybe give them counsel on what can
actually work,

494
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,600
because I find that companies aren't entirely
unreasonable.

495
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,480
Sometimes they come to you because they don't
have experience or knowledge of how this

496
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,800
works. So then it's it's education,
right?

497
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,160
MICHELLE KANE:
Absolutely. I mean, they don't know what they
don't know. And they will appreciate hearing

498
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:35,760
you say yeah, no, we can't do this,
but this is what we can do.

499
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,040
And you know, a lot of times they might
seriously think,

500
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,880
oh, but we have to get this out. And they may
come to realize,

501
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,960
oh, wait, you know what? You're right. We
don't it's not like it's a store opening in

502
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,120
ten days, which if you're just coming to
promote that now,

503
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,680
you've got different problems. But yeah, and
you can avoid becoming that next

504
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:54,920
ghosted PR firm.

505
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:02,000
KAREN SWIM, APR:
100%, 100%. And I, you know,
I think when we talk about all of these

506
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,720
graves they do get easier to deal with.

507
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,400
I mean, we do want them to die.

508
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:12,080
Let's, you know, if there's some kind of a
Halloween miracle,

509
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,880
let it be that all of these things die and
that we're valued and treated with respect.

510
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,400
But I think that once you learn to spot these
as patterns and,

511
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,920
you know, not something that you're doing
wrong,

512
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,480
that it becomes a little bit easier to handle
them when they come your way.

513
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:34,400
MICHELLE KANE:
Yeah. So true. So, you know,
even though this was very tongue in cheek,

514
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,080
it was very cathartic,
right?

515
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:43,200
Because we really do need to do our best,
do our part to put these bad habits to their

516
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,280
final rest.

517
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:50,240
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Absolutely. Please. And thank you.

518
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,360
MICHELLE KANE:
Right, right. Which is,
you know, and and also,

519
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,560
that's why we have each other. That's why our
solo PR pro community exists.

520
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,560
And, you know, bring bring your worst client
graveyard story.

521
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,440
And we will, we will buy the marshmallows and
the graham crackers.

522
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,640
We'll get the s'mores ready and we'll tell
some cool tales around the fire.

523
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,330
Right now that fires at solo PR pro.com.

524
00:31:13,370 --> 00:31:14,730
Not a real fire, sadly.

525
00:31:14,930 --> 00:31:23,810
I could go for a s'more right now,
but But let us know.

526
00:31:23,850 --> 00:31:27,610
We'll have we'll have all the goodies in our
show notes and always.

527
00:31:27,610 --> 00:31:30,530
And episodes are at that solo life.com.

528
00:31:32,450 --> 00:31:41,610
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Yeah. And we hope that this October brings
you lots of treats and none of these ugly

529
00:31:41,610 --> 00:31:42,930
graves or tricks.

530
00:31:42,970 --> 00:31:45,490
MICHELLE KANE:
No tricks. So until next time.

531
00:31:47,090 --> 00:31:50,130
KAREN SWIM, APR:
Thank you for joining us for That Solo Life.

532
00:31:50,130 --> 00:31:53,410
We hope that you find some joy,
some laughter,

533
00:31:53,410 --> 00:31:58,530
and some insights in this episode,
and we would love it if you would stop by

534
00:31:58,530 --> 00:32:03,890
that solo life. Leave us a review and share
it with a colleague who could use a

535
00:32:03,890 --> 00:32:04,930
little laughter.

536
00:32:05,610 --> 00:32:07,930
MICHELLE KANE:
Exactly as we all can.

537
00:32:07,970 --> 00:32:09,090
All right guys, see you.

538
00:32:09,090 --> 00:32:09,970
See you next time.